Tuuli Kukkonen: All right, so welcome everyone to the Relational Psychotherapy Training Program information session for 2025. Before we begin, I would like to offer gratitude and acknowledge that the University of Guelph resides on the treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit. I would like to give thanks to the land on which we live and work and to the peoples, the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Attawandaron peoples who have cared for this land. I come with respect for the land and its history and feel grateful to be here as a recent settler. I invite all of you to take some time today to consider the land where you reside and to better understand the Indigenous stories it has to share. So the purpose of today’s session is to provide information on the Relational and Psychotherapy Training Program programs, the RPTP programs, and answer questions you may have as you consider applying to them. We'll – maybe we can move to the next slide. We'll go over introductions, situate the programs within the context of the university and then provide an overview and details of each one, admission procedures and then we'll have, as we said, plenty of time for the Q&A towards the end. So please save all your questions for that period and again use that webinar feature and type your questions in there and we’ll answer them for everyone from that area. All right, so next slide. So introductions, I am Dr. Tuuli Kukkonen. I'm a faculty member within the Department of Family Relations and Applied Nutrition as well as the RPTP programs. I'm also the associate chair of our department and the outgoing curriculum chair for these programs. I'll pass it over to Kevin.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Good morning, everybody. I am Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford. I'm the Director of Clinical Training for the Relational and Psychotherapy Training Program and I am Co-Director of the Maplewoods Centre for Family Therapy and Child Psychology. Emma.
Emma Turner: Sorry, everyone. I'm gonna go back to this slide. Good morning, everyone. My name is Emma Turner and I'm the manager of clinical supervision for the RPTP program. I look forward to hearing all your questions today. Thank you. I'll pass it, actually, I don't know if Shauna's here yet, but Shauna is our Assistant Manager of Graduate Operations and is a Graduate Program Assistant. So when you email our email address for the program, you're speaking with Shauna. Shauna is a very helpful person to have and she's wonderful, but she will be joining us shortly to help us out with the Q&A portion and I'll pass it over to Rana.
Rana Khan: Good morning, everyone. My name is Rana Khan. I'm a clinical supervisor and instructor within the program.
Tuuli Kukkonen: Great. Thank you everyone. All right, so with introductions done, I'll just give you a brief history of the programs. So our Relational and Psychotherapy Training Programs have grown out of a rich 40 year history of our previous Couple and Family Therapy program at the University of Guelph. And we are continuing our established reputation in excellent systemic clinical training with the RPTP programs, which align very well with our university commitment to improve life. These revamped programs, there are three of them which we’ll get into, were developed during 2021 to 2023 to better meet the modern challenges of mental health crises in a post-COVID pandemic world, and they offer flexible pathways for studying and program delivery as well as aligning with the regulatory and accreditation changes that happened across the provincial and national mental health landscape. We are now one of the first programs in Canada to receive full accreditation from the Canadian Association for Couple and Family Therapy for our Master of Relational and Family Therapy and both our MRFT and our Master of Psychotherapy (MP) programs are recognized by the College of Registered Psychotherapists of Ontario as meeting their training requirements. So if we go to the next point on the slide. So we have the three programs which we'll go over today. We have one which is a non-clinical fully online program, the Master of Arts in Mental Health and then our two clinical therapy programs. Next slide please. So our Master of Arts in Mental Health is currently a two-year fully online synchronous non-clinical program. This is exclusively delivered again through remote synchronous online learning. Its non-clinical focus is there to help gain mental health and social policy knowledge to apply to an existing career path. So this is a fantastic program for folks who are in teaching, policing, human resources, social work, nursing. It really is there to provide you with foundational knowledge in mental health that you can then apply to your existing profession. Within this program, we're accepting students for September 2026. Our applications open August 11th, 2025, and will go through I think until March. So if you just check the website, we'll have the exact dates set up there. We'll be accepting at least 35 students to this online program, and the core academic courses include courses in sort of foundational knowledge in mental well-being, theoretical understandings of helping models, social policy, and we also have a capstone project course for students in this program. I do want to highlight that the current program is a two-year program, but we have submitted revisions to this program to increase flexibility and study pathways. So those are undergoing this coming year and we'll be able to update the website as those changes get approved. Within those changes, we have sort of options to include a shorter timeline to completion. So again, right now it's two years with two courses a semester, is the typical course of study. We'd be bringing that down to potentially one year with three courses a semester, and again a number of elective courses that students could take to complement their own career trajectories. This does have a different application process from our clinical programs, so you can reach out to Shauna Porter – the email address is there – for more information about applying to the online MA.MH. And with that, I believe next I'll pass it off to Kevin.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Good morning, everybody. So I'm going to speak about the two clinical programs in the Relational Psychotherapy Training program. Both of these clinical programs are housed in the new state-of-the-art training facility, the Maplewoods Center for Therapy and Child Psychology. This is a really innovative training community-based clinic and research hub within the university. It's a collaboration between our program and the Psychology Department's Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology program. The facility opened in 2021 and there are some pictures here that you can see of our facility, waiting room, hallway, and a classroom setting and so on. Next slide please. So the first thing I'll talk about is the Master of Relational and Family Therapy. I think one of the most important things for you to know first about both of these programs is that both these programs are two-year immersive clinical training programs. These are not your typical master's graduate-level programs. These are considered professional training programs and have a combination of academic work and clinical work to meet a professional standard. So really important to know that distinction. So the MRFT is a two-year immersive clinical training program where people will work with individuals, couples and families, real life clients through our community-based clinic. It is a systemic and relationally focused program that integrates theory into clinical practice. So you'll be learning a number of theories all under the umbrella of systemic relational thinking and be able to put that into direct practice with clients that you'll be seeing. We are accredited by the Canadian Association for Couple and Family Therapy, as Tuuli noted, and we are recognized education, training and clinical experience program with the College of Registered Psychotherapists of Ontario. The MRFT has six practicums, all of which are on-site. It's on-site learning, all of which occurs at the Maplewoods Centre. There's one in each semester. And each of those practicums focuses on a specific approach or model to practice therapy. There are seven core academic courses and those seven core academic courses are shared with the MP students that are also in the program, whereas the six practica – practicum, sorry are just with the students in the MRFT program. Over the course of the MRFT program, a student will accumulate up to 450 direct client contact hours and those are accumulated either doing in-person work here at Maplewoods or doing virtual work with clients anywhere within the province of Ontario. And also accumulate 100 or more hours of clinical supervision and the direct client contact hours, so again, this is you working directly with clients on your own and 40% of those would be considered relational work. That means there's more than one client in the room at any time. Each year we accept 12 students into the MRFT program, it’s a highly competitive program. Our program starts in the spring semester, so the next cohort will begin in May 2026 and applications will open August the 11th of this year. They're just coming up. Graduates of the MRFT program will qualify to register with the CRPO, which is our regulatory governing body, as a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying), and be CRPO exam-ready, it is a national exam that people have to write in order to become a full RP or Registered Psychotherapist. MRFT students will also graduate on track to become a Registered Marriage and Family Therapist, RMFT designation with the CACFT. The next degree is a Masters of Psychotherapy or MP. Again, this is a two year, I've said this is a two-year immersive clinical training program where students will work directly with clients who are individuals, couples and families. This is a recognized education, training and experience program with the CRPO. And in this program, there are two practicums, two on-site practicums here at Maplewoods, which occur in semesters two and three that will give an introduction to two models of therapy, again still working under a systemic relational lens. There's also a one-year practicum, so you do a one-year externship placement and a one-year practicum that follows that placement in semesters four and six. Again, seven core academic courses which are shared in class with your MRFT colleagues. MP students will accumulate up to 350 direct client contact hours, again working in person with clients at the Maplewoods Centre, virtually anywhere in Ontario, and through the externship placement, the one year externship placement, and accumulate over 100 hours of clinical supervision. And we accept 12 students per year in this program. The Program starts in the spring semester, May 2026, and applications open August the 11th. And graduates of this program of the NP program will qualify to register with the CRPO as a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) and be exam-ready to write the national exam. Emma.
Emma Turner: Alright, thank you again. Welcome everyone. So I'm gonna talk just a little bit about a summary comparing the three programs that we just discussed and then I'm gonna move into talking a little bit about the admission process for the programs. So again, we have the two clinical programs. The MRFT and the MP program and then we have our non-clinical program, the MA.MH, which Tuuli spoke about near the beginning and that this MA.MH program is really meant for folks who are perhaps in a particular complementary field, like guidance counselling or nursing and looking to get a better understanding of mental health, how it impacts people and how they can do this training or get this master's degree to better support how they show up in their job, but also to influence policy of the work that they do in those particular areas. So again, that's the MA.MH, that's the one highlighted in yellow there at the end. Again, it says two years to complete, but we are looking to change that as Tuuli said. These this program, the MA.MH is not recognized by the CACFT or CRPO because again, it doesn't have a clinical component of working and providing psychotherapy and it has a slightly different admissions process, which I will also talk about. I’ll also say too, sorry, the MA.MH program is entirely online as well. That's a big difference too. So again, just summarizing the MRFT and MP programs, the two that are highlighted in red, the MRFT program is a two-year program. You are with us in Guelph for your entire two-year placement. Your entire two years of the program are with us at Guelph. You are seeing clients at the Maplewoods Centre, which is the pictures that you saw there. We are – that program is accredited by CACFT and recognized by the CRPO. You accumulate up to 450 hours of direct client contact and you are doing both in-person and online learning for that program and again the program will start in May of next year. Again, I'm gonna walk more through the admissions process in a moment and then again with the MP program, the first year of the – it's a two-year program. The first year of the MP program is in-person in the Maplewoods Center with us, seeing clients with us. And then your second year of the program, you would be doing a placement and all your coursework moves online because it gives more flexibility for placements to be across Ontario and not have to be so close to Guelph. So it provides that flexibility. So your first year would be with us in Guelph at the Maplewoods Centre. Your second year of the program would be in a placement. And you would be earning up to 350 direct client contact hours. This program is also recognized by the CRPO, so both the MRFT and MP program, when you graduate from the program, you are exam-ready, as Kevin mentioned, to write the exam to become a Registered Psychotherapist. OK, and then just a note at the bottom here, there is no option to transfer between our programs, so we ask that when you are applying to the programs, if you are interested in the MRFT and MP program, we suggest that you apply to both. We can't have you – we can't transfer your application and we can't also transfer you once you're in any of our programs to one of the other programs, OK. So first I'll talk about the admissions process for the MA.MH program. So the MA.MH program, the applications on OUAC will open on August 11th and close March 9th. This application process requires a statement of interest and a CV, two references and your transcripts. So again, as I said before, if you are also interested in the MRFT and MP program, you have to also apply to those programs separately. The acceptance process, so successful candidates will be notified in April of next year and then the program, the MA.MH program starts in September of 2026. OK, so that's the MA.MH program's admission. The admission timeline for the MRFT and MP programs is the same timeline. We ask that again, if you're interested in both of these programs, you apply to each of them. And so that application process starts August 11th, so OUAC will open on August 11th and close on September 22nd. The application there requires a statement of interest and within that, we have a specific form that we need you to complete that has specific questions for you to answer as the statement of interest. As well included in that specific form, one of the first questions is a chart that will ask you to list your relevant experience, so we don't actually need you to also upload a CV, we actually just want you to put it all into the same form. OK, so within the same form you will have your statement of interest by answering the questions that we have posed and included in that is relevant experience and there's some specific information we want for that relevant experience. We also ask for three references. Typically, we've asked for two academic, one professional. In the past, we've been flexible with that. Some people have – it's been a while since they've been a part of academia, so we're open to there being two professional references, one academic reference. If that fits better. Ideally, we want you to have references from people who know you, who can speak about who you are and the work that you do. So whatever combination would best represent  you, we invite you to do that and then your transcripts as well. Again, if you are interested in both the MRFT and MP program, please apply to both separately. So with the MRFT and MP program admission process, there's an interview process or component to this. So our admissions team will go through all the applications and we will select a specific group of people who will then be invited to the next phase of the admissions process, which is our interview. And this will take place the week of, the second week – sorry, the invitation for the interview will take place the second week of November. So you will hear if you're a successful candidate, you will hear from us. You will receive an invitation to attend a live interview and prior to the interview you will be asked to submit a brief video essay. This video essay will be due on November 23rd. Okay so there's I guess two components to the interview process. The first part is submitting the video essay then the live interview The live interview day is a virtual interview and it will include an information session about the program and the centre. You will meet virtually again with faculty and staff to for a brief interview, it's very brief. And then at the end of the day, people attending that interview day will have opportunities to ask questions to current students who are in the program. So there's kind of three components to that interview day, and that takes place from December 2nd to the 4th. And then finally the acceptance process. So during the second week of, sorry, second week of December, we will be notifying folks who are being who are being offered admission recommendation. And again the program will start May 4th of 2026. OK. So I think, I think that was all the information we were going to be sharing today. We want to leave enough time for folks to be able to ask questions. So again, if you could please use the Q&A function of our webinar to ask your questions. We're going to then have Shauna, if you don't mind, kind of taking a look at some of the questions that have come up already, if there's a general theme or themes to some of the questions for us to answer.
Shauna Porter: Absolutely. So I have a couple of questions about MA.MH to get us started, so I might just compile them together. So someone is asking if you can take the MA.MH and then transfer into MRFT. And whether the MA.MH program is only offered full-time or if there is a part-time option.
Tuuli Kukkonen: Great. I can jump in and answer those. So you cannot transfer, as Emma mentioned earlier, you cannot transfer from any of the programs into another one. So if you're in the MA.MH, you would have to apply to get into the MRFT or MP if that is a – if those are programs of interest to you. And there is no transfer credit, so it would be taking all the, you know, new courses over again should you get in or be successful. So the MA.MH is fully online. It is offered full-time. However, it is flexible, so currently, we offer – our full-time option is two courses per semester, but students can certainly take one course a semester if it fits better within your own work schedule. The whole point of the MA.MH is to make it as flexible as possible so that professionals would be able to take the courses and complete the course of study or the program at their own pace. With our revisions, we're hoping we'll be able to offer three courses a semester so that students can, you know, finish the program within a year or again, take one or two courses a semester as best fits their schedule. I’d also add that our MA.MH courses are offered in the evenings in recognition that most people are working. So it is within our Eastern Standard Time. So they're usually offered around 6:00 or 7:00 PM until 9:00 or 10:00 PM on weeknights.
Shauna Porter: I have another question here. I'm just gonna try and do the MA.MH ones first, maybe just to get those ones finished. So it's asking if MAMH can be customized for clinical practice after extra coursework or if there's a pathway and, yeah, sorry, I'll just leave it at that.
Tuuli Kukkonen: OK, sure. So there is no clinical pathway. If you're interested in a clinical program, then I highly recommend you apply to our MRFT or MP program. The MA.MH is really designed to be a non-clinical sort of complement, excellent training, non-clinical training in understanding mental health issues as they relate to your own profession, but there is no option to acquire clinical hours from the MA.MH or to have a clinical pathway within our MA.MH program. So once you have your MA.MH degree, then you can go out. It can be a stepping stone, so you can then apply to other programs and gain clinical experience elsewhere, but within our – the program is not designed to be a clinical one at the University of Guelph. Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Can I just add to that, Tuuli?
Tuuli Kukkonen: Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So, in thinking about the crisis of mental health, the Canadian Mental Health Association identified two places where we need more resources. One is frontline workers. That's people actually doing therapy. That's what the MP and the MRFT program is designed to do. The other is we need people in strategic places to be able to educate workplaces and people in existing careers to be able to take information about mental health back to those workplaces to help affect social policy and to educate people on mental health, that's the that is the other thing the Canadian Mental Health Association said it's critical to do. That's why we designed the MA.MH. It is intended to give people that knowledge to go back to a workplace, to be able to help educate about mental health in the field, not to actually practice.
Emma Turner: Just before we move to the next question, I just want to remind folks that if you do have a question to please put it in the Q&A. We're not going to answer questions for folks who are raising your hand, although I very much appreciate folks who are brave enough to raise your hand and wanting to ask a question directly to us. I really, really appreciate that today. But if you do have a question, we are containing this to the Q&A function of the webinar today. We just find we're able to get through a few more questions and also yeah, if we use the Q&A function. So folks who've raised your hand, if you don't mind putting your questions in there, that would be great.
Shauna Porter: OK, I have a question. Do the clinical programs provide training and supervision?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So that the clinical programs provide supervision. Supervision is a bit of a gem in our program. Students will have two hours of clinical supervision per week, at which time they will bring questions and concerns, but they will bring – everybody's sessions are video recorded, so people will bring clips of their videos to supervision to talk about the work that they're doing. That is the real gem of our program is that it provides that level of supervision. Hope that answers that question.
Shauna Porter: With the MRFT and MP programs, can students gain accreditation in other provinces after graduation?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So for the MRFT and MP programs, students will come out as a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying). The CRPO does not have a residency requirement, which means you can continue to be registered with the CRPO and abide by their regulations, and living in any other province or in fact anywhere in the world. In Canada, there are four other provinces, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Alberta and Quebec that are regulated provinces and if you're registered with the CRPO, there is fairly seamless ability to transfer from one province to another to practice.
Shauna Porter: Thank you. Sorry, there's so many questions coming in, which is amazing, so I just need to take a second here. Also, if we don't answer your questions in this video, I will try and answer them in the Q&A section so you will get an answer to your question. It just may be after the session is over.
Emma Turner: Yeah, we and we also will copy and paste all the questions as well and then we also try and answer them in a document that we'll post as well. So hopefully your question will be addressed in some form or another today. We will answer your questions.
Shauna Porter: OK, I have another question. Can you describe the ideal candidate for the MRFT and MP programs? This is also a question I get a lot in email when they're coming in. So good luck to you, Emma and Kevin.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So I think an ideal candidate for us is somebody who is open and flexible, is interested in learning. We teach, I think we teach people to think in a way that is not typically taught. We think systemically, which means we think about people in relation to other people. We don't live in a vacuum. We live in relation to other people, and we think about those other relationships and systems in people's lives. We're also strength-based and collaborative. This is not a competitive program. The competition is getting into our program. Once that's done, our expectation is students will come and be highly collaborative in working with clients, but also with colleagues. That's not for everybody to be able to do. We're not interested in people becoming experts. We're interested in people understanding really strongly systemic relational practice, strength-based approaches to therapy and seeing client as expert and drawing on clients’ resources to be able to support and help them. Anything to add?
Emma Turner: No, I think I agree with all that you've said. And I would say too that there's a real mix of folks who apply and get accepted into the program with respect to life experiences. And so that's something too, that we're very open to. We have folks who have looked at this as a second career, maybe a third career. And so it's not just people who are coming from an undergraduate program into this master's degree. So we do have quite a wide range of folks with different lived experiences as well, which we're very open to because I think that we see this as an enriching learning experience for everyone when we have folks with different perspectives as well.
Shauna Porter: Could you clarify the difference between externship in the MP program and the practicum in the MRFT program, please?
Emma Turner: I can speak to that. So the practicums are – they're courses that teach us, teach the students about particular theory or models or approaches to doing psychotherapy. That's the intention and it's those courses where students are learning how to do a particular approach to therapy and integrating that into their actual clinical work that they're doing with clients. And so, I would say then the main difference becomes, with the MRFT, that clinical work is at the Maplewoods Center. All your clients are at the Maplewoods Center. With the MP students, that first year you're in the program, your clients are at the Maplewoods Center and you're doing your practicum courses and integrating that in your clinical work at the Maplewoods Centre. In your second year of the program, you are still doing a practicum course with us, now online, where you're still learning theory and models and approaches, but where you're now integrating that clinical work is with clients in your placement, so not at the Maplewoods Centre anymore at these placements. So the placements could be private practices, a community-based organization, so there's quite a few kind of children and youth mental health organizations, folks who might be familiar with CMHA, other – Student Wellness on campus, things like that. So there's lots of different placement opportunities for the MP students, and I'm the – part of my role is the externship coordinator. So what I do, is I meet with each of the MP students to get a sense of what it is that they want to get out of their practicum or their, sorry, their externship placement for that year. What kind of experiences do they want to have? Where do they want to be? Sometimes that's a big determining factor. So we have some folks are like, I have to be in Guelph or I have to be in Toronto or I really want to be in Hamilton or whatever it might be. Or it might be I really want to see more about what this feels like to be in private practice or I want to see what it's like to work more with children and families in a community-based organization. So I work with the students to find the placement that works best for them. But essentially what that is, the difference between the MRFT and MP is it's where you're getting your clinical experience, and where you're getting your supervision. So that's the other piece is that when you're at Maplewoods, seeing Maplewoods clients, you're being supervised by the Maplewoods supervisor team, including myself, Kevin and Rana. And then when you're in your externship placement, you're seeing the clients as a part of that organization and you will be supervised by someone at that organization as well. So that's the main difference, but ultimately you are in your practicum courses always integrating that theory into the clinical work.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: And I'll just add to that again, we're throwing some big words around here, collaborative, postmodern, strength-based, systemic. You know, the models that we teach are things like some of you may know these, may not, but dialogic, collaborative practice, solution-focused, narrative. These are the models that we teach. If you're interested in learning CBT, or you're interested in learning emotionally focused therapy or something like that, we are not the place for you to come. You will not learn those here. We're very specific about the models we teach and the way that we teach. However, we would set a very strong foundation for people to then go after you've graduated to go and learn those other models.
Shauna Porter: Thanks, Kevin and Emma. The next question is what experience or relevant experience are you looking for either academically or outside of academia?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: I think ideally, I mean in terms of outside of academia, you might have some experience in working with people in some kind of setting, perhaps a crisis line, perhaps if you've done some volunteer work in a hospice, perhaps you've worked in a day camp or a summer camp, something like that. We look for those things, but they're not necessarily requirements. While we look for, in terms of academics, we look for people that you know have done fairly well in academia, though we look at every single applicant regardless of the GPA presented. We have had people apply and accepted from a variety of different backgrounds. It's not just psychology or the traditional social sciences, sociology, anthropology. We've had people apply from – people have degrees in music, people have degrees in fine arts, people have – we have had people apply who were chefs. We're really interested in people who have a broad lived experience and have an interest and can and help us understand why doing this program is important to them.
Emma Turner: Yeah. And just to add, I think ultimately it's about how do you, how do you demonstrate your ability to connect and relate to people? I think ultimately when it comes to that experience, that's what we're looking for. And that can look a whole bunch of different ways, you know, we do have quite a few folks who've volunteered with Kids Help Phone, which is a great volunteer experience. You learn a lot there, and obviously it's very much connected to kind of mental health supports. However, that's not the only – that's not a requirement for us. It doesn't have to necessarily be in the mental health field for us to know or for you to demonstrate to us your ability to connect and relate to others. Because foundationally, that's so important when it comes to being a therapist. So we need to see and know that you have experience doing that.
Shauna Porter: This next question, you might throw it back to me, but the question is what is the average number of applicants and what is the competitive average for the applicants that are getting into the program?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: We probably could throw that back to you. We had 600 applicants for both programs last year, is that right?
Shauna Porter: That is correct. Over 600.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Over 600. It's a highly competitive program. And of that 600 – go ahead.
Shauna Porter: I was just gonna say to confirm that's 12 spots in each MP and MRFT. So a total of 24 spots from those more than 600 applications and then–
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: We will interview between 40 and 50 people.
Shauna Porter: And then the other part of that question is what is considered a competitive average or what is the cut off average? So I don't know if you want to speak to that, Kevin.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: We review every applicant regardless of GPA.
Tuuli Kukkonen: Who meets the minimum requirements.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Sorry, go ahead, Tuuli.
Tuuli Kukkonen: I was gonna say who meet the minimum requirements, right? Like we do have university minimum requirements, so we will review all the applicants who meet the minimum requirements regardless of GPA.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Sorry, correct.
Shauna Porter: The next question, which I also get asked a lot, and I can help with this answer as well, is how many hours of class is there because I'm going to be commuting. So I often tell people commuting is not encouraged. This is a very busy program. I don't know the exact number of hours. I don't know if any of you can speak to the number of hours you would say is put into a week, but I usually say 50 plus based on clients, classes, homework, if you will.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Yeah, this is a question that comes up a lot and we often have people who believe they can commute and then somewhere in the second semester they go, “oh my goodness, I can't commute” and they are scrambling to move. So again, this speaks to what I was trying to say at the very beginning. This is different than your usual master's program. This is a professional degree where you're doing academic clinical work, but you are also doing – you're accumulating clinical hours. And so you're doing somewhere between 8 to 10 sessions a week. So that's 8 to 10 hours. But on top of that, there's probably another two or three hours of prep time, of documentation writing, of supervision and so on. So it is easily said that once you start doing clinical work in the second semester, you're spending 50 hours easily doing academic work, preparing for clinical work, doing clinical work. The other intangible thing is we underestimate the personal impact that being in this program, learning to do therapy, practicing therapy and doing that with other people has on ourselves, on what we call the safe and effective use of self, how that affects us personally. We underestimate that and the amount of time it takes for people to think that through, to reflect on that and so on. That's why this is a highly immersive program. If somebody is planning on commuting, I would wonder how long that commute is and how viable it is. We are – our center is open from 8:30 AM to 8:30 PM, Monday to Thursday and 9:00 AM to 3:30 PM, I’m getting that time wrong, I think I did – but we're open five days a week and four nights. And the expectation is that when students are doing clinical work, you are pretty much available in that time period to be here to do clinical work, to be available to do clinical work as well as your other academic responsibilities.
Emma Turner: And just to clarify or add to that too, you know, I think that we've had folks who live in kind of the Kitchener, Waterloo area who've successfully been able to commute to Guelph, even folks who might live in like Halton area, I think where we have heard from students where it's become more challenging is when folks are commuting in from Toronto and you know even east of the city and especially too, when folks don't have access to a vehicle and they're using public transit that's also become a big challenge as well. So that's when we talk about commuting, that's kind of what we're referring to. And I think too, it's also – this is a really good time to like get your money's worth, is maybe how I'm thinking of it. So the more that you can be on campus, the more that you can be talking to the supervisors, talking to your colleagues, seeing clients, the more you're going to get out of the program. And so I think that when your time is taken by long commutes, it's going to take away that time that you're going to get out of the program. So that's another piece too.
Shauna Porter: I have a few questions for myself it seems, so I might take these questions and run with them for a second. So one of the questions is do we accept international students? Absolutely, we do accept international students. The next question that kind of follows that is, is there funding for these programs? There is no funding available for the MRFT and MP programs. These do qualify for OSAP if you are eligible for OSAP, but there is no funding guaranteed by the department, and/or university and/or unit. That being said, we do offer graduate teaching assistantship or GTA positions in the department. We do have many postings available and students in these programs are eligible to apply. However, they are not guaranteed these positions, so they are considered at a different level than those students in the department who are eligible, sorry, are guaranteed these positions, but it is possible and we encourage you to apply to GTA positions. However, just know that it is a very busy program and so taking on additional tasks does make things a bit more complicated. The next question, I've had quite a few questions about the research methods course that is a requirement for the program. So you must have a 70% or above in at least one research methods course. If you have taken five research methods courses in your program, that is awesome. You only need to submit one that meets the 70% or greater. If you've taken one course and got less than a 70 and then you take another one with above 70, we do not take the average of those courses. We just take one course with a 70% or above. If you have questions about whether or not your research methods course meets the requirements, you can email me at rptp@uoguelph.ca with a course outline and I can help. These are not thesis courses. These are not independent research courses. This is a specific course typically called “Research Methods” or something similar to that, but I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have about the research methods course. I know it is one that people get a little bit caught up on. People who come from a social science background typically have this course. It's usually required in your undergraduate degree. The next question is, do you have a PhD program to continue research or are students who complete one of these RPTP programs eligible to continue in a PhD program?
Tuuli Kukkonen: I can jump in and answer that. So typically to be in our PhD – we do have PhD programs, but they're on the research side, so they're in family relations and applied nutrition within our department. So you can do a PhD related to couples, related to families. However, typically to be admitted to a PhD, you need to have a master's degree, you need to have a thesis-based master's degree and since these programs don't offer a thesis-based, it's not a direct path into a research-based PhD program. If you're interested in research then we do have – I would recommend that you go to our Family Relations and Applied Nutrition website. We do have research-based master's programs and PhD programs listed there that don't have the clinical component, but would certainly fit within the research part if those of you – if you're interested.
Shauna Porter: The next question that I've received a few times is also for myself. So because this is a summer start or May start program, you must have completed all required courses for your degree by April 30th, which means you can technically convocate in the summer, but you will need a letter from your institution indicating that you have completed all required courses for your degree by April 30th. The next question is, on our website it states you must have completed all required courses by December 30th. This is referring to required courses for our programs, which in this instance for these programs would be the research methods course. So in order to apply for May start, you must have completed your research methods course by December of this year in order for you to be considered for the program. The next question is about calculating averages, which a lot of people have asked. So we take the last two years of your degree, which can sometimes be your third or fourth year. It can sometimes be your second or third year, depending on where you're at in your program. We ask that you calculate this average yourself as a self-declared average. However, those are reviewed. I do them all, so I will be able to – my calculation is the one that I use. I always double check to make sure that it looks right in comparison to what you have indicated. If you are really struggling and need assistance, you can reach out to me, but please know that I will not review transcripts before you have applied to the program. It is just not possible. As you can imagine, with over 600 applicants, I cannot possibly answer questions about every single transcript, so I would ask that you really try to calculate your average and if you're not certain that it's possible or you're not certain that it's perfect, sorry, that's OK. I will double check it. The other question I had is if there are letter grades on a transcript, how do we determine that? On every transcript from each institution, there is a grading scale. You can look it up on the university website. If you have an official copy of your transcripts, it is on the back of an official copy of your transcript. We use that grading scale for each institution, so please know that you need to calculate it based on your institution's grading scale. The next question I have here, I'm gonna combine two. I'm not sure if you can speak to either of these as it may change, but what kind of interview questions should we expect and what does the video recording entail and or what should we expect from that?
Emma Turner: I can speak to that. So for the video recording or the video essay component of the interview, you'll be provided a journal article or a book chapter that we've selected that we'll provide to you and you will read that journal article and answer some questions based on that journal article and record yourself answering those questions and submit that to us. And then for the interview, you can't prepare for it. And I know that's probably not the answer that you want to hear, but you cannot prepare for it. So just trust yourself, be yourself, and that's all you need to know.
Shauna Porter: Are there breaks in between semesters?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Yes, there are. There are breaks between each semester, 2 weeks and our centre is closed to clinical work during that time and students are expected to not be here and go away and do something other than being here. They're very important downtime both for students, but also for us as clinical staff and faculty.
Shauna Porter: Is graduate student housing available to students starting their programs in the spring semester? I can answer that. The answer is yes. However, Maplewoods has nothing to do with student housing. That all goes through the student housing department, so the department and/or Maplewoods cannot help you in that regard. With everything you shared about the workload and emotional impact the courses could have on us, how feasible is it to work part-time over the weekends and still succeed in the program?
Emma Turner: That's a good question. I mean, I think that, you know, we have a number of students who are working part-time on the weekends or certain like days or I would say evenings maybe. So it is feasible, it is adding more to your plate and we also understand that it's an expensive program and that some people do need to have a part-time job in order to make this feasible. But I do think that some of our students have found ways to be able to manage that for sure.
Shauna Porter: I get asked this question a lot. Does having an undergraduate thesis make your application more competitive?
Tuuli Kukkonen: I can answer that. Not necessarily. Like we said, we really do appreciate a variety of different lived experiences, so it's not necessary to have an undergraduate thesis. It might help you in terms of your own experiences and what you're bringing, but it's not – it doesn't give you a competitive advantage over other students who don't have one.
Shauna Porter: Sorry, I'm just doing a quick look to see. I think we've answered most questions already. One of the questions that I did see that I do get asked often is if you are an international student or you completed your degree outside of Canada, but it was in English. Yes, you can request an English language exemption. That is not to be guaranteed. It may not be exempt. However, you can request that. If your degree was completed in Canada, but your first language is something other than English, you can absolutely, sorry Canada or the US and your degree was in English, you can absolutely request the exemption. If it's in any other country, you need to submit and we will determine whether or not that can be waived. Additionally, if you have international transcripts, they need to be translated and submitted in English. We do accept WES evaluations as well.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: I see there's a question about can an MRFT grad register with both CRPO and CACFT? And the answer to that is yes, they're entirely different organizations. One is a regular regulatory body, the other is a provincial, sorry, a national association. The expectation is that you would register with both.
Shauna Porter: I don't know if any of you want to flip through the questions, but I do think that we've covered most of the questions that are not super direct to each person. If you've asked a question that's very personal or about your specific situation, we will try to answer that in the chat, but it's probably not appropriate for us to answer it here.
Emma Turner: I'll just answer the – speak to the one question as well about just the difference between the MRFT and MP programs and the clients that you might be working with. So for both the MRFT and MP program you – especially at Maplewoods, you will be seeing individuals, couples, and families. So the MRFT students are not only seeing couples and families and the MP students are only seeing individuals. It is a mix across both and I would say that for some of the MP students when looking at where they want to do their externship placement, if working with couples and families is something that you want to do, then we will find you a placement where that is also an option. I think that there's in the past maybe been some confusion that the MP students are only being trained to work with individuals and that's not the case. You are going to be trained in how to work with couples and families as well.
Tuuli Kukkonen: I see a question about advanced standing for courses. So I do want to clarify that all the courses for the MRFT and MP are required. There are no elective courses. You all have to take the courses on the on the program and there's no opportunity for advanced standing because even if you have taken, let's say for example, a graduate-level research course, our courses are really designed to be focused on that systemic perspective and that clinical perspective. So they all offer kind of a unique blending within the program as a whole. So we don't we don't typically provide any kind of advanced standing for courses that might seem similar on paper.
Shauna Porter: The other question. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Kevin.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Yeah, there's a question about – this for the MRFT program, but it would be for both. After writing the CRPO exam, do you need to continue to be under clinical supervision? The answer to that is yes. CRPO requires people to be under clinical supervision until they've reached what they call independent practice, which is 1,000 direct client contact hours and over 150 hours of supervision.
Shauna Porter: One of the questions here is asking what makes our program different than other programs? What makes our program – how does our program compare to other programs?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So I would say there are a number of things that make our program different or unique to other programs in Ontario or across the country. The first is we're one of few programs across the country that sort of specialize or have a focus in what we're calling systemic relational practice, which is again considering the ways in which we are connected to the various systems, be that family, be that friend group, community, religious. So when you think about all the different systems that we that we belong to, how we impact those, how those impact us. So that's the umbrella and I think that in part makes us unique as we focus on that fairly stringently. The other differences are the level of supervision that students get and the quality of supervision in terms of, all sessions are digitally recorded. Supervisors can review those with you. You can review those. We also do live supervision where a student would come with the client and work with the team behind the one-way mirror. They would then switch and the client and the therapist would listen to what the team has to say in a reflective kind of way. These are really unique learning opportunities that are not offered in many other places, certainly not many other places in Ontario, they're offered in some programs in Alberta and Manitoba. So I think those are – and the other is we're the we're the full meal deal, if you will. You will accumulate the academic requirements. You will accumulate the clinical requirements. You'll accumulate the supervision requirements that when you leave here in your last semester, I will work with everybody to register you with the CRPO so that you are a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) before you've even graduated and that's a big leg up. I think the other things that make us unique is our attention to, I would say, our attention to detail. Our attention to training people to a fairly high standard of ethical practice. Our attention to what we've already spoken about, the interface between the personal and the professional. You can't do this work and not think about yourself and you can't think about yourself without doing this work and that's really, really important. The other is we are not interested in training you to be one of us. We're interested in training you to the therapist that is within you to emerge. We are interested in training you to who you are going to become as a therapist. And I think that also those are all things that make us unique and different. Emma, would you add anything?
Emma Turner: Yeah, I think that just to add a little bit, although that was that was really good. I think that we provide – and what I've heard from students as well, when it comes the time of them graduating is that they feel that they are coming away with a very solid foundation and I can't express exactly, like how solid that is, but it is an incredibly solid foundation for how to do psychotherapy and all the components that you need to consider because doing this work is more than the model. I think that sometimes the way that psychotherapy is described is from a place of a model, and it is far more than that and is far deeper than that. And so I think that we go to the depths of that, that allows you to graduate with that solid foundation from which you can then add any model you want on top of that, but you are coming away with the depths of this work that is required for you to do exceptional work in this field. So I think that truly, I think is what sets us apart from other programs is the depth of the experience of, in these programs, to allow you to do this really important work, yeah.
Tuuli Kukkonen: And we do this with small cohorts, right? Like there's 12 in each program in MRFT and MP, and I think that really creates a sense of community and that really allows us to have that in-depth connection with each student individually as well and create that that sense of community as a whole.
Shauna Porter: I don't see anything else that looks new unless anyone else sees anything?
Emma Turner: I thought I saw just a couple things just around when describing relevant experience on the application. How recent does it have to be? How much detail does that have to be in? So again, we're looking for relevant experience and if that's something that you did, you know, six years ago that really informed how you were able to connect and relate to people and how that gets you thinking about relationships and who people are, then include that, put that in there. Again, we do provide a pretty clear chart with the headings of the information that we want with respect to your relevant experience. So please just kind of follow the chart headings when you see it. So it would include things like the dates, like the time frame in which you did that work, what you were doing in that work, how often were you doing it, like was it just a part-time thing? You kind of did it two hours a week or was this like a full-time position that you held? Were you doing it mostly in person? Were you doing it online? Things like that. So again, there's very clear headings in the chart with respect to the kinds of information we're looking for.
Shauna Porter: One of the questions was how many semesters total is the program, which I think was answered previously, but each of these programs is 6 semesters in total.
Emma Turner: That's right. The MP and the MRFT programs are two years in total, 6 semesters. And then kind of as Kevin was saying, there's a two-week semester break in between each of those semesters, but when we start in May of, let's say for May 2026, you're going to go for the next two years straight until April of 2028. Yes.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: There's a question about in addition to relational systemic approaches, does the program take a humanistic or existential orientation? That’s an interesting question. I would say that systemic with the way we do relational systemic work is in and of itself is similar to being humanist. I think existentialism probably more comes in how we grapple with some of the issues that clients face or perhaps students face. I think existentialism sometimes comes in how we talk about practice and ethical ideas, but we don't sort of approach existentialism from a more deep philosophical stance.
Emma Turner: Kevin, there's a question with respect to the – when you write the exam, are you a Registered Psychotherapist or a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) or how do you move through those different registration roles?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: So in order to write the national exam, you have to have completed a program and be a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying). Once you've written the exam, in order to move from a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying), you have to have successfully written the exam and have accumulated the 450 direct client contact hours and 100 hours of supervision to move to the full RP category.
Emma Turner: So essentially with the MRFT program with the potential of accumulating up to 450 hours in that program, we're bringing you close, if not right on the mark for being able to have those numbers to then become a Registered Psychotherapist, of course you have to pass the exam. But again, as Kevin said, we will help all of you, the MRFTs and the MPs, apply to the CRPO to get your Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) status, for the time at which you'll have when you when you graduate, and then from there you'll have to write the exam. For the folks in the MP program, again, that program is designed for you to accumulate up to 350 hours. So for some of you in that program, you would still need to work following your graduation to accumulate the additional hours that you will need to then be able to apply and become a Registered Psychotherapist. But you would be a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) during that time, which you can work and be paid as a psychotherapist under the psychotherapy – RP (Qualifying) status.
Tuuli Kukkonen: So there was a question here on if we apply to both clinical programs but are more interested in one, should we indicate this on our application? And I correct me if I'm wrong, Emma, but I think we did have a spot on the applications or was that later?
Emma Turner: I don't think we – I think that we've removed that because it then got a bit complicated. Of course if you – if there's something about one of the programs that you're particularly drawn to, you know please include that, that is that is one of the questions I think, is you know what is it about this program that you're interested in or something along those lines. So if there is something that really is drawing you to the MRFT or MP program, include that in your application for sure. We're not gonna – we can't guarantee that you will be selected for one or the other, but we can certainly take that into consideration. It just becomes a bit complicated when it comes to the acceptance process. If we're then kind of picking and choosing in a particular way, it gives us more flexibility if we're able to do that.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: And just with the application, in writing it or even in doing the video submission, our experience over the last couple of years is that the use of AI is not generally helpful to people. So we would strongly advise against the use of AI in answering those questions.
Emma Turner: There's a question here. Do you provide alumni any support for the exam, or is the training during the program sufficient for preparation for the exam?
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: I would say that the training is sufficient to support the exam. The national exam is also not really something you can prepare for. Given the way it's written, we would talk all about that. There are books and courses out there on how to write the exam, and at the end of the day, they're probably not particularly helpful. You will graduate knowing what you need to know. If you paid attention while you're here, you will graduate knowing what you need to know.
Emma Turner: There's another question too. It's interesting, about kind of what's our collective appraisal of the job market post-graduation, especially giving the disruptions of AI recently when it comes to therapy. I like this question. It's interesting. I don't know if Rana is still on the line here. I'm sure he'd have a lot to say, but I think that there are a lot of people who very much still want to be seen in person. I think we've seen a huge swing from kind of post-COVID of just mainly everyone online to then people wanting to be seen in person again. And I think there is something that is really valuable, or people are seeing us to be very valuable to be sitting face-to-face in person with another person and really valuing that. So I do think that there is still very much space for real therapists, real people providing this work. I don't know Rana, if you wanted to add anything to that.
Rana Khan: Yeah, I could speak to that a little bit. I think I really appreciated hearing a lot of things, Kevin and Emma and Tuuli, that you've been saying around the uniqueness of what we offer and I do think in line with that, what we offer lends itself to always have some type of – there will always be a market for what we offer because we offer that human connection, we offer that relationship that you just can't get from AI. So in that way I'm very hopeful and optimistic.
Emma Turner: Thank you. And then another question that we had was just if someone were to be accepted into the program, can they defer to start the year after?
Shauna Porter: We do not allow deferrals to this program, unless there is like an absolutely exceptional circumstance. Most of our programs in FRAN, we do not allow deferrals. It's actually the same process as applying anyways, you have to pay the fees, whatnot anyways, so we do not allow deferrals for these programs because they are so competitive.
Emma Turner: I just saw another question pop up here. I think this is an interesting or a good one, just to clarify. So when applying to the MRFT and MP program separately, do candidates submit the same letter of interest twice or do we tailor them accordingly? And then would we submit associate supplements documents twice and pay the associated fees twice? So I would say, so yes, you're doing everything twice, and I would suggest that some of the questions, it may make sense for you to tailor it to that specific program that you're applying to. Some of the questions, you may be able to do a copy-paste for both, but some of them may require some different thinking depending on the program that you’re applying to. But then yes, maybe – definitely the fees, twice. Shauna? They would have to also supplement…
Shauna Porter: Yes, absolutely.
Emma Turner: Everything's twice, yes.
Shauna Porter: So if you're applying to one program, I believe the cost is $120 to apply to one program, and then each program is another $120 on top of that. So if you're applying to both programs or all three programs, just know that there is a cost associated with each of them. You can also order transcripts online. You do not need to submit official transcripts when you're applying. You can submit unofficial transcripts. However, if you are given admission, you will need to submit and pay for official transcripts to be sent to the University of Guelph from your institution. If you are applying for more than one program, you will pay the fee twice and then you will need to upload every document twice. So you'll need to upload your transcripts twice, and/or three times. A supplementary document every time, the statement every time. Each application holds its own space, kind of in the computing world and if you do not submit each document for each application, your application will not be marked as complete.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: I would add to that that the MP and the MRFT programs, while there are a lot of similarities, there are actually some important distinctions that make them distinct degrees. The MRFT, because the students are here for their six practicums. They do all their clinical work here. They're immersed more in systemic relational practice. They're supervised by us for that whole time, whereas MP students spend 2 semesters here. Then they have the opportunity to go out into an externship placement that has the potential for them to more focus in a specific area that they might have interest in. Could be addictions, could be agency work, it could be a number of things and so the flexibility for where they – where people go and what they learn is different. And so if you're going to apply to both programs, I would strongly encourage that you go to the website, read the differences and you tailor the various parts of the questions that, relative to each of the programs, to demonstrate that you have an understanding of how the programs are different.
Emma Turner: And just to clarify, the MP students are with us for three semesters and then are at their placement for the second year. So there was another question here too that if you're applying to both the MRFT and MP program, is it possible to be offered acceptance into either program or is it more likely to be offered acceptance only into the one? I think this is an important question. So if you apply to both programs, you will be – and you are a successful candidate and you're being offered an interview spot, for the interview spot, you're still, at that juncture, still being considered for both programs. It's not until we've then completed all the interviews and we see kind of the who's who, who's applied to what, where do we think folks are going to fit best that we make that decision. And so ultimately at the end, when you get an offer, it's for one program, but at the time of the interview, if you've applied to both, you're being considered for both.
Shauna Porter: If I can just add to that really quickly, before we wrap things up here, is when you are offered admission to a program, you have 48 hours to make a decision as well. I'm not sure if you did speak to that previously. I apologize if I missed it, but I just wanted to put that out there, if you are offered admission and you are sent a letter or given a call for admission, you have 48 hours to make a decision. And then of course, because the programs are so competitive, we will then need to move on to the next successful candidate. So just keep that in mind around the time of interviews and/or decision-making. I think at this point we're getting a lot of duplicated questions that have already been asked and so I would prefer to not go back and answer those questions as they are will be in the recording. So just to confirm, this will be recorded and transcribed and put on our website in place of the old webinar that is currently up, so you can always go and watch it again. I know you want to see everyone's smiling faces and listen to this presentation again because it was so fantastic. So if there are any additional questions after this webinar, I would ask that you email myself, which the information is here. Sorry if I just took over somebody's closing remarks, but I just wanted to state my email. So I am Shauna Porter. My email is rptp@uoguelph.ca. You can email me there with any questions. This mailbox is very, very, very busy, so I apologize if it does take me some time to get back to you. It's also summer and I am actually away next week, so if you want an answer, you have this week and then I'm off for a week. So there's your heads up that other people that didn't attend here will not know. If you have any questions though, please feel free to email me there. Also, try and make your questions very broad. It's really hard for me to answer really personal questions. As we said, there's over 600 people who applied to the program, which means that there's even more people who are reaching out and asking questions. So just be really thoughtful in your emails, I would say, please, just to make sure your questions are good questions and you can't find them on our website.
Emma Turner: Right, thank you everyone. So again I've just put up the slide here. Our program, the RPTP, does have its own website with information, but then each program also has its own site with information about the courses, etc. And as Shauna said, you can reach out to Shauna at rptp@uoguelph.ca with any questions that you may have. Again, this webinar is being recorded, the questions, and so you'll be able to watch back and then we also do kind of take the questions and the transcript and put together a document as well with just some general Q&A information too, so hopefully that will also help you as well if you need this. Thank you everyone, I don’t know, Kevin, Tuuli if you want to add anything before we wrap up?
Tuuli Kukkonen: No, just hope this has been helpful to everybody and we look forward to seeing your applications in the fall.
Kevin VanDerZwet Stafford: Yep, absolutely. Thank you!
Emma Turner: Thank you everyone. Enjoy the rest of your day. Take care!