Sowthini (00:05): I'm studying the effects of land use change on soil organic carbon sequestration. So I'm comparing the soil organic carbon change resulting from the conversion of agricultural lands to biomass crops so that I can say the biomass crops has the potential to sequestrum more carbon than the agricultural land. Elena (00:28): You're listening to The Why and How Podcast, produced by the Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph, where we look to answer big questions in agriculture, food, and the environment through casual conversations rooted in research. Hey, Talia, how are you doing today? Talia (00:49): I'm doing really well. Thanks. How about yourself? Elena (00:52): That's good to hear. I'm not too bad. Talia (00:54): That's great. Let's tell the listeners who we're talking to today and what we're talking about. Elena (01:00): We both act actually just wrapped up an interesting conversation with a PhD candidate in the school of environmental sciences, Sowthini Vijayakumar's research is an assessment of soil carbon gains and it's stability in biomass crop fields in Ontario. So biomass crops have lots of uses like for heating, manufacturing bioproducts, useful for animal bedding, all of which I learned from speaking with Sowthini, but most importantly, these crops can be very useful in improving soil quality by accumulating soil or organic carbon. So her research is hinged on understanding the economic stability of biomass production systems here in Ontario. Talia (01:38): So, Elena, I have to ask, what did you enjoy most about the conversation? Elena (01:43): Well, honestly, as a former economic student, a little background about me, I graduated from the food agricultural and resource economics program at U of G. So I just think the whole economic side of this topic was very interesting, what's the economic benefit to producers for converting their lands to bio crop fields in the long, will the improved quality of soil and improved agricultural yield caused by the biomass crops be profitable for the producer and for the industry. And speaking ahead in the future, when carbon trading comes into effect, how does this change the dynamic of what's profitable and economically sound versus what's not. So there's a lot to here and I'm sure everyone will learn a little something in today's discussion. So I'll just point this question right back at you Talio, what did you find the most interesting? Talia (02:33): The economics component that you mentioned was definitely a highlight, and I think overall just learning about biomass crops and how they can enhance soil and contribute to climate change mitigation efforts. And in particular, if government and policy adopt carbon credits, that's something we'll just have to wait to see in the future. Elena (02:57): It was all very fascinating guys. And we're very excited for you guys to unpack today's discussion with us. And without further ado, we'll get right into it. Hello and welcome back to The Why and How Podcast. Today we have a very exciting guest. We are joined by Sowthini Vijayakumar, who is a PhD candidate in the school of environmental sciences here at the University of Guelph. Her research is mainly focusing on the effects of land use change from agriculture crops to biomass crops on soil carbon sequestration. And Sowthini actually also completed her master's degree in the school of environmental science. She completed it back in May 2019, and she was also involved in the AGGP project, which stands for Agricultural Greenhouse Gases Program, during her master's degree. So we're very excited. I'm sure we have lots to talk about today. And I would just like to start with a very basic question for you. So what exactly is a biomass crop? Is it different from food crops? Can food crops also be biomass crops and what is the difference? Sowthini (04:06): Firstly, thanks for having me on the show. And when you talk about the biomass crops, they are used as raw materials for the production of several bio-products, such as flower pods, carbon [inaudible 00:04:20], food containers, as well as it's used for the animal feeding and bedding. And also the raw materials of these biomass crops are used as a biofuel productions. Elena (04:33): Very interesting. So I know you mentioned all of those uses for the biomass crops, like animal bedding, et cetera, are there other useful ways that research is discovering that biomass crops can be used in the industry? Sowthini (04:50): Yeah, like I said, it can be used in the livestock industry, as well as in the biofuel production. These biomass also have the ability to fix carbon into the soils. So this can be achieved by producing biomass in increasing the acreage of biomass productions. So if you talk about biomass crops in Ontario, the commonly grown biomass crops, the perennial grasses like switchgrass and Miscanthus, they are well known for carbon sequestration. Elena (05:28): Fascinating. Well, can you go a bit more into detail about your PhD research and why does it matter? Sowthini (05:36): So I'm studying the effects of land use change on soil organic carbon sequestration. So I'm comparing the soil organic carbon change resulting from the conversion of agricultural lands to biomass crops so that I can say the biomass crops has the potential to seek sequester more carbon than the agricultural land. So that's the main research or the focus of my research in PhD. Talia (06:04): I'm just going to pop in here for a second. I'm curious about what soil organic carbon change means. And could you explain that a little bit further? Sowthini (06:14): Yeah, the soil organic carbon sequestration means the process of fixing the atmospheric carbon into the soil. So thereby, the current soil organic carbon content will increase. So our focus is to how we can improve the soil organic carbon, thereby fixing the atmospheric carbon into the soil, so that's how we are reducing the atmosphere carbon dioxide, which is the main greenhouse gases. Elena (06:43): And I just want to pop back in and take a look at just your background in education. I understand that you completed a bachelor of science in agriculture, but you specialized in soil sciences. And that was by in your home country, in Sri Lanka. So where did your interest in studying and researching soil come from and where did the desire come from to pursue it in graduate studies? Sowthini (07:12): So my aptitude for the scientific research is what originally got me working in environmental sciences, specifically in soil science. So finishing my undergrad in Sri Lanka, I thought doing academic research abroad would be more beneficial for posterity and for my future endeavors. So the University of Guelph is well renowned for its work in environmental sciences. And I was so happy, and I was accepted as a master student at the University of Guelph. So I graduated from the master studies in 2019, and I thought it would be nice if I stayed for my PhD research, since I appreciate the hard work and expertise of my peers and supervisors. Elena (08:06): And we may know, a lot of people know that dealing with mitigating greenhouse gases is on the agenda for a lot of nations all over the world. So I'm sure that research that you're doing it's very timely. So I was just wondering if you could tell us a bit more about the background and the context of this work. So in other words, what existing body of knowledge or research are you seeking to build on? Sowthini (08:33): Well, Ontario has an abundance of degraded soils, soil that are no longer economically viable for agriculture production. So this land can be used for biomass crops since these biomass crop have much lower nutrient requirements. So according to the literature, it say biomass crops in Ontario will increase from 1200 hectares to 15,000 hectares in the next five to 10 years based on the current government intent. But the research has been done on carbon sequestration of biomass crops soils in other parts of the world, but none of the studies have looked at soil organic carbon sequestration in several location in a given region. Jordan Graham, a University of Guelph master student in 2016, sampled 19 biomass crop farms in Ontario to establish a baseline for carbon stock, so I sampled those same 19 sites in 2020. So I'm looking to find out how much more carbon was captured in those four years. In other words, I'm looking for the carbon rate. Furthermore, I'm also comparing these anthropogenic land uses, as I said, agriculture land and biomass crop lands to wood load, which are untouched forest with undisturbed soils. So we expect that the wood loads soil organic carbon will not change and consist of maximum of soil organic carbon as they are undisturbed land use systems or a natural forest. So the previous research data, which Jordan did that gives the baseline for the soil organic carbon for the undisturbed systems and the wood load soil organic carbon data are considered as a reference for maximum sequestration potential that can be achieved if perennial biomass crops are introduced into the disturbed systems that are less productive. So this is the main focus of our study. Elena (10:59): I'll just take a backtrack here. There's something that you said/. You labeled it degraded agricultural lands. So what exactly is meant by that term and how exactly would the biomass crops help to enhance land that is no longer fit for agricultural production? Sowthini (11:19): So degraded lands means that they are less productive, that is low in nutrient content and also low in organic matter content. So by introducing these biomass crops into that low productive lands, this can increase organic matter, that's how it increases the soil fertility by increasing organic matter. And also, these biomass crops have the dense root system, so it can hold the soils so there is less chance for soil erosion and the degradation is [inaudible 00:11:59]. Talia (11:59): I'm curious if these lands that you're talking about that are planted with the biomass crops, are they then in the future going to be used for agricultural crops again like food? Sowthini (12:18): Yes, it can be, but there is no such chance used as the food production. They can be used for the animal feed and other bio crops at value added commodities. As I said, it can used for the flower pods production and used as the raw materials for the biofuel production. So that's the recent intent for this biomass production. Talia (12:46): Thanks for clarifying that. It's interesting. I was just curious, like I said, whether or not they can return to food protection lands, but from your response, it looks like they're utilized for other uses. Elena (13:00): And I'm also curious as to just the impact and the reach of research such as this, do you see this research potentially influencing policy or causing changes in the industry because of the new knowledge you're uncovering? Sowthini (13:18): I'm trying to find out the practical solution to reduce atmospheric carbon by fixing into the soil. The soils we found so far are that the biomass crops can fix more carbon than the agricultural crops and the wood loads have the highest soil organic carbon content. But if you talk about the policy level changes, if you call soil organic carbon sequestration is the long term process. So it can take decades before soil can regain its lost carbon. So therefore biomass crop producers have to maintain the perennial biomass crops for a long period of time, but any land sale or any uncertainties of this biomass crop production may result in reverse the soil organic carbon sequestration, so by the development or disrupting the land. So in this context, policy level changes are important. So provincial and federal government should provide subsidies for growers to maintain biomass crops on their land for a long time. And also if they introduce favorable policies such as carbon trading in Canada would be beneficial to keep the biomass production or that could benefit the biomass growers. Elena (14:58): And how readily would you say are farmers to adopting the use of biomass crops on their fields in Ontario? Sowthini (15:09): Well, currently more than 50 farmers from the Ontario biomass produce a cooperative growing biomass on their fields. So this is the only significant group currently involved in biomass production in Canada. The future of the industry depends on the effect of the government efforts and also the development of niche markets, like for the feed and animal bedding and the productions like utensils or other value added commodities, so introduction of that such markets will help to regain this industry. Talia (15:59): I'm just going to pop back in here quickly. Just before, when you're talking about policy, you mentioned carbon trading. I'm not familiar with that concept. Could you elaborate on it a little bit? Sowthini (16:13): So by cultivating biomass crops, if the farmers can fix more carbon so they can get the credit from the government for fixing carbon. So that's the carbon trading policy. So they will gain something from the effort to fix carbon from the land they've used. Elena (16:35): That's really helpful. Is this often in a monetary incentive or a tax incentive? Sowthini (16:43): It's a monetary incentive. Talia (16:46): That's really interesting. I'd be curious to know what other countries are utilizing carbon trading in their policies. Sowthini (16:56): Yes, but it's unfortunate we don't have that carbon trading policy here yet. Elena (17:03): I just want to go back to where you mentioned about your work in measuring the sequestration rate. So can you tell us a bit about what that process looks like? Because I know you mentioned that it can take years even for you to notice that change in the soil. So how does your work... You said you measured it in 2020, correct? So how did that process look for you to get that information? Sowthini (17:35): So as I said, the previous master student, he sampled in 2016 and again sampled in 2020. So within that four years, I'm going to compare how much carbon we gained within that four years. So if there is a change in carbon, I can calculate the carbon sequestration rate. So by comparing that carbon sequestration rate to the wood load carbon sequestration rate, that's the maximum amount of carbon that land can sequester, so I can predict how many years it'll take to reach that maximum level of carbon to sequester. That's the whole idea about this project. Elena (18:25): So, Sowthini, what new questions are arising prior your findings? What type of things are you uncovering right now? Sowthini (18:32): As I said, I'm trying to find out this practical solution to carbon sequestration. So these results will allow me to find whether the biomass crop fix more carbon. And the enhanced soil organic carbon in soils directly increases the soil organic matter, and thereby that increases the soil fertility and also soil health. So I will also look at the stability of the fixed soil organic carbon in biomass crops. So that means how long these fixed carbon can be stayed in those biomass crop fields. Elena (19:17): So what would you say is the most challenging aspect of your research focus? Sowthini (19:21): So it is a long term process. The carbon sequestration is a long term process. It could take decades to regain lost soil organic carbon. The main challenge is how long the farmers or the biomass growers can maintain their land with biomass crops. So uncertainties like sale of the land would degrade or reverse the soil organic carbon process, because if they use that land for any other purposes, so the main idea of this research or the soil organic carbon sequestration will not have the effect. So that's one of the main challenges we are having right now. Talia (20:10): I'm just going to pop in here again. You said as the challenges to this land, is it being sold? Is that a huge risk for some of the farms that you're working with who are growing biomass crops? Sowthini (20:29): Yes. Talia (20:31): Is it pressure from development? Is it just pressure because there isn't policies in place like carbon trading to support these biomass growers and the cooperative that you mentioned earlier? Sowthini (20:48): Yes. So as I said, if the farmers want to maintain the biomass crops in their line, they should gain some incentives or economic credits for their efforts, or else to stopping them from sale we have to give some back to them. So they should gain some advantages from the land. That's all we can keep them maintaining the biomass crops in their fields. Talia (21:16): Definitely. Well, it sounds like they'll have to be a policy push then to support these growers. Sowthini (21:23): Yes. At least some sort of help to them. Elena (21:28): I'm just curious to find out, at this point in your research and as you're analyzing your findings and the data, is there anything that's shocking to you? Anything new or that you just didn't expect that you are uncovering now at this point? Sowthini (21:48): I was thinking about how will the federal and provincial government support researchers and farmers in such long term endeavors. And I was also thinking biomass crops abilities to fix carbon demonstrably increases soil fertility and health. So can they be used to convert soil back into economically viable agricultural land? So those are the questions came into my mind because the whole project is about increasing the soil fertility. So convert those after doing this and several years after, can we convert this back to agricultural production to get the economic return? Talia (22:40): When you say long term, are you talking 10, 20, 50, 100 years? How many years are you referring to in these instances? Sowthini (22:54): So soil organic carbons fixing in the soil is the long term process. It could take decades to 100 to 1000 years to at least increase by one percentage. Talia (23:10): Wow. That's a significant amount of time. Sowthini (23:14): Yeah, that's true. That's how we have to think about the lands capability before degrading them. Elena (23:24): So, Sowthini, I was looking into just a bit more of the context of your work and I know that you're mostly focusing on soil carbon and nitrogen utilization by soil microorganisms to form microbial biomass. So what exactly is microbial biomass as it relates to just the biomass crops in general? Sowthini (23:49): Microbial biomass is the mass of the living or the microscopic component of soil, mainly bacteria and fungi. So these are herd to decompose plant and animal residues and also the organic matter. So that's all these releasing the plant available nutrients and contributing to carbon storage in soils. So those are the main important thing in the soils. Elena (24:21): Looking back to your question about whether or not this land that has been restored with nutrients can be converted back to agricultural lands, do you see there being any challenges or factors that make this impossible or do you think it is a possibility that someday once the nutrients are restored to the soil, that they can be producing food crops again? Sowthini (24:48): Yeah, exactly. If we keep these biomass crops for a long time and if we improve the soil health or the nutrient fertility, we can change to agricultural production after such on period of time because it will take some time to regain or restore the nutrients. Because for the agricultural productions, the agricultural crops require more nutrients than the biomass crops. So that's the main idea of cultivating biomass crops in the degraded lands. Even though if you want to cultivate by agriculture crops in the degraded lands, we need to apply or supplement fertilizers. So this is not economically viable or it won't give profitable market for them. Elena (25:52): Growing the crops themselves, is that also profitable? Sowthini (25:55): Yeah. As I said, in addition to capturing carbon, also the raw materials or the plants leaves [inaudible 00:26:05] can be used for other purposes by utilizing the other parts of the crop for the production of the raw material for the biofuel products in itself, it gives some economic value. Elena (26:23): So is that use and incentive for farmers to grow these crops as opposed to food crops? I just want to get a bit of a idea of how it compares to the food crops? Sowthini (26:38): So farmers can gain economic value from the food crop production, and also biomass productions. The main intent or main goal of farmers is to gain economic value out of their productions, so for the out of the production in their land, so they should gain some economic value. In both crops, they can gain but if they have marginal lands like degraded lands so having agricultural crops is not beneficial than the biomass crops because having agricultural crops on their degraded lands, they have to spend more money to cultivate them. So that's how, if they cultivate biomass crops, they can reduce the production cost and increase the return. Elena (27:31): Thank you for clarifying that. And I know you mentioned that the most common biomass crops in Ontario are switchgrass and, correct me if this is the incorrect pronunciation, Miscanthus. Sowthini (27:45): Miscanthus, yeah. Elena (27:47): So what are the uses of those particular crops? Sowthini (27:52): Currently those crops are used for the production of animal feed and used as a animal bedding and also now they are using for the production of food containers and utensils and flower pods, and also they are used for the car bumpers production. Currently they've been used as a raw material for the biofuel production. So those are the main users currently known for these crops. Elena (28:27): Overall, what would you say is some general advice that you would give to someone pursuing a PhD? Because I know in my experience as communications intern, I've spoken with master students, I've spoken with PhD students, and I know that is a whole different ballgame. So what would you say would be some encouraging words or just advice for anyone diving into the field of research in a doctoral program? Sowthini (28:56): The marketability of research is just important as scientific merit. So publish as much as you can and communicate your results with the public, that's why you can help to the community. So even if the scientific community find great value in your work, media and government action are required for the policy level changes. Elena (29:25): That's so important to keep in mind. Even I know it's important to consider knowledge translation, how well will this research and this findings be palatable to other people that are not in the scientific field, how would they be able to make sense of it and be able to adopt this thinking and try to make policy level changes, right? Sowthini (29:52): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Elena (29:54): Sowthini, thank you so much for coming onto the show. It's been a great time hearing about your research and hearing about how important it is to look into the usefulness of crops like this to help restore the nutrients to the soils that are providing our food. And I know that in a world where there's a growing population and we're going to have to increase our food production, looking into these type of types of options is very important and very timely. So before we go, I just want to know if there's anything or anyone you'd want to give a shout out to. Sowthini (30:31): Okay, thanks for having me today. So I would like to thank the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs for funding my project. And also I would like to thank my supervisors, Dr. [inaudible 00:30:49] and Dr. Paul Warani and my colleagues. Also, as an international student associated with University of Guelph, interactions with 19 land owners across Ontario were very pleasant. They accepted me as their own and they welcomed me in their respective farms. So I'm very thankful for them. Thank you. Elena (31:14): It's wonderful. Great. Thank you again Sowthini and thank you Talia for adding in some questions there and helping us to move along. The Why and How Podcast is published by the Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph. It is produced by Jordan Turkstra and Talia Dyer. Recording and editing by Jacob Hezek and Kyle Richie. The host is me, Elena Baker. If you like what you heard, be sure to leave us a review and subscribe. Thanks for listening.