Louis Colaruotolo (00:04):
Specifically, what I'm doing is looking at how the structure, whether inherent, so naturally already existing or fabricated, as in made by us, contributes to the degradation of the food itself.

E'layna (00:22):
You're listening to the Why and How Podcast produced by Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph, where we look to answer big questions in agriculture, food, and the environment through casual conversations rooted in research.

Tahlia (00:42):
Hey E'layna, what do bakers play at their lunch break?

E'layna (00:46):
I'm not too sure, Tahlia, can you let me know?

Tahlia (00:49):
Tick tack dough.

E'layna (00:54):
Okay. That was a good one.

Tahlia (00:57):
It's obvious we're in a great mood and really excited about episode. We just wrapped up a great conversation about food deterioration. E'layna teller listeners about our guest.

E'layna (01:09):
Sure. It's my pleasure. Today we spoke with Louis Colaruotolo who is a PhD student in the Food Science department. Louis is conducting fascinating research all about food structure and understanding how changes to foods organization can extend its freshness. He even goes into how his lab research incorporates 3D printing. So get ready for an interesting discussion today.

Tahlia (01:34):
Yeah, let's get right into it.

E'layna (01:36):
Hey, Louis, it's great to have you here. How are you today?

Louis Colaruotolo (01:40):
Oh, it is a pleasure to be here today. I'm doing pretty good.

E'layna (01:44):
Awesome. So before we get into your research, I know you're doing research on using food's own ingredients as kind of a specific organization to prolong deterioration. That's a tongue twister, but it's a very interesting topic for me. But before we get into that, I'm just wondering, have you always been interested in food sciences? What kind of drove you towards this area of research?

Louis Colaruotolo (02:10):
Yeah. To put it lightly I always say that the reason I'm here right now is a series of terrible decisions. But in reality, what has brought me to where I am today is somewhat of a less traditional route. When I first got out of high school, I did not want to go to university. It was just not something that I wanted at that moment. And I started out by going to trade school in culinary arts. And I really love the work that I was doing in trade school. However, I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't for me.
So from there I did a traditional more four year university where I found food science, which just kind of spoke to me because I thought to myself, "Well, gosh, I want to be able to use the things that I learned in culinary arts and apply them to something a little bit different." So I did food science for four years. I liked it enough to do a master's in food science. And either was a little bit of Stockholm syndrome, or I really liked it. And I decided to do another four years for a PhD in food science. And here we are today.

E'layna (03:24):
Wow. That's a very interesting story. I'm just wondering, did you do food science... Your other programs was that also within the OAC?

Louis Colaruotolo (03:36):
No, I actually am an international students from the states. So I did my undergraduate in Delaware sort of in the mid Atlantic of the United States. I did my masters in Massachusetts and my very first time, not only in Canada, but also at the University of Guelph would be when I started my PhD in the fall of 2019.

E'layna (04:06):
Interesting. So what kind of drove you to researching at the OAC? Is there anything in particular that stood out to you?

Louis Colaruotolo (04:15):
Yeah, absolutely. When I was doing, my master's in Massachusetts I really liked the advisor that I was working with. At the time it was Dr. Maria Coradini. She worked at the University of Massachusetts and we had started working with each other and I just really, really liked working with her. I was excited about the project. I thought she was a great mentor. And then she decided to change her position. And she accepted an offer at the University of Guelph. And I was still in my master's program thinking like, "Well, I was planning on doing a PhD here." But she said, "Hey, do you want to finish your master's in Massachusetts and then would come over to Guelph and do a PhD?" And of course I thought about it for a very, very, very long time, but I ended up making the decision that I really liked working with her enough. I liked the subject material. I thought that she was a great mentor. So I decided to take the jump and cross the border work with Maria at the Ontario Agriculture College.

E'layna (05:27):
Very cool. Well, I'm very excited to dive into what you're researching. So I guess we'll start off with learning about that. So what is your research and why exactly does it matter?

Louis Colaruotolo (05:39):
Oh gosh, that's such a big question. You eat food, don't you?

E'layna (05:41):
I do. I love it.

Louis Colaruotolo (05:46):
Most people do. Most people. I mean, it's hard to find someone who says no to that answer. When you say buy a handmade shortbread cookie or you're buying some sort of baked good, and it's from a bakery or something, you notice that if you don't eat it right away, you open up that container you're going to find that that cookie is more stale than if you ate the day that you bought it, and maybe you might even smell that the butter has oxidized a little bit, you get just a tinge of fat ran acidity in those cookies. And that's normal. We know food goes bad. That's not a big shocker here, but why does that not necessarily compare to the shortbread cookies you buy in the box at the grocery restore? Now, a lot of people are going to say, "Oh, well, it is because of all the additives that go into these cookies." And you wouldn't be wrong.
However, there's more than just additives when it comes into the idea of the degradation of foods. So when I'm thinking about food degradation, I know what a lot of the symptoms of food degradation are. Some symptoms would be something like staling or the fats oxidizing giving you sort of that rancid smell, the color changing, the aroma changing. These are all symptoms of food deterioration, but we don't always know what the causes are because food is ridiculously complex. Oh my goodness. You might think to yourself that food is simple, but oh my God, it is so complex. So many foods are such a combination of so many different phases and materials and textures and ingredients. And even within one ingredient, you'll have just such a myriad of different molecules that make it up. It's insane how complex food is.

E'layna (07:53):
Right.

Louis Colaruotolo (07:54):
So, yeah. So when we're looking at the degradation, it's go going to be incredibly complex. We can't just slap on a bandaid and say, "Well, this bandaid cures this symptom, therefore we've stopped degradation." It's not that simple, but if we could learn what the causes of degradation were, rather than treating the symptoms, we might be able to make some more meaningful conclusions on how to extend the freshness and the shelf life of foods.

E'layna (08:27):
Right. And does this research mainly speak towards processed foods or does this kind of look into fruits and vegetables and produce, things like that?

Louis Colaruotolo (08:39):
Yeah, it is in the traditional sense a lot of people will assume that this is all about processed foods, how we get the next chip or the best cookie and situations like that. But in reality, what I'm doing is quite fundamental. Because food is so complicated, we start on sort of a more basic level and we move ourselves up. So when we want to think about how this kind of thing is applied in the future, we're really right now just gathering information. We're not creating anything in specific. There's nothing I'm working on that necessarily is going to be sold anytime soon. I'm trying to figure out some of the fundamental basics of the degradation of foods doing what I am. How this could be applied to something on a manufacturing level is another question, but it is probably more akin to a processed food than it would be to a natural food. But that doesn't mean that we can't use a lot of the principles that we learn in order to guide our decisions in either natural or processed foods.

E'layna (09:58):
Right. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. So I'd just like to ask now, what are some of the key activities involved in your research and involved in really studying the fundamentals of food?

Louis Colaruotolo (10:09):
Yeah. So as I mentioned before, food degradation, it's a complex topic. We could take it from a chemical standpoint. We could take it from a textural standpoint. We could look at the mold and the yeast and the bacteria. We could look at the color and the aroma. There's so many different things that we could look at. So specifically what I'm doing is looking at how the structure, whether inherent, so naturally already existing or fabricated, as in made by us, contributes to the degradation of the food itself.
So I'm not out here trying to say what combination of preservatives makes the longest lasting food. There's a lot of people that do that and they do some very good work. However, I'm interested in how the physical structure, how we organize the food, contributes to its freshness through storage. So a big thing that I do is I make structures. So I have three structures in mind that I'm trying to work through. We'll see time permitting on this whole graduate program thing, but I like to create different structures that allow me to see all right, well, if we tweak the structure just a little bit, does that affect how it stales? Does that affect how it becomes more rigid over time? Does that affect the rate of the lipids becoming rancid? So a lot of what I do is material structuring and then observing what happens to the materials through storage.

E'layna (11:56):
Right. So let's take a backtrack. When you say structure and organization of food, well, is it organization of food or organization of ingredients?

Louis Colaruotolo (12:09):
Well, it's... So that's a really good sort of a question, which is not the easiest to answer. It's more as if we're organizing the components...

E'layna (12:20):
Okay.

Louis Colaruotolo (12:20):
... That make up the food because to say organizing ingredients, I think would not necessarily capture what I'm doing here. So let's say we're organizing components.

E'layna (12:35):
All right. And do you have an example you can give about... You said you work mainly with structures and really designing the structure of foods. Do you have any examples you can give to kind of give us an idea of what a structure is and what the component is?

Louis Colaruotolo (12:53):
Absolutely. So I work with a few different types of structures. One machine that I use to make structures, and it's not my entire project, but it's the most relatable one is a 3D printer. And this is... Everyone loves 3D printers right now. Like, oh gosh people are crazy about these things. Everyone's like always, "Oh my God, you're 3D printing." Well, what we're doing with 3D printing is saying, "Well, if we could actually legitimately design how food is structured, could we actually look at it a little bit differently and see what structures affect the freshness?"
So with 3D printing, let's imagine if we had a grid or if we printed out in honeycombs, or if we printed out in little circles, or if we did trusses, which are sort of triangular interconnected, do any of those actually have a longer shelf life than the other? And that's kind of a silly concept. You think to yourself, "Well it has the same ingredients." Like, okay, yeah. I mean, it's the same exact solution. The only thing we're changing is how it's organized.

E'layna (14:14):
Right.

Louis Colaruotolo (14:14):
So that is what we're talking about when we say we are structuring things, using the same ingredients to determine how this modulates, that's the word that we love to use, how this affects the freshness or the shelf life.

E'layna (14:31):
Very cool. I'm just wondering how hard is it to use a 3D printer in this way? Are you... I don't know how 3D printers work. Let's just start there. But are you printing? Are you printing food?

Louis Colaruotolo (14:47):
Yeah. We are printing food. It's not food you want to eat. I'll tell you that right now. It's this corn solution. I call it my little corn slushy, which I know, right. Your stomach must be growling when I say the word corn slushy. So it's really not, not delicious or anything, but it is corn protein. And then I just put it into a solution and the solution is just a little bit of alcohol and a little bit of water, and that allows the protein to be fully dissolved. So then it makes this goop and we were calling this goop a food based bio ink. So a bio ink is an ink that you can print and it is of biological origin. And since my ink is made from corn protein, it is indeed a bio ink, but it's a food grade, bio ink. Not a food delicious bio ink, but a food grade bio ink.

E'layna (15:53):
Right. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. We'll just take a few steps back. I just want to kind of get a bit more background on this type of work. So what would you say is the existing research or knowledge that you're trying to build on with what you're doing right now in your program?

Louis Colaruotolo (16:14):
Yeah. It's interesting what we're doing in this project. And I think the reason that a lot of it is so interesting is because a lot of it is incredibly fundamental knowledge. Not here going to say that I'm the first person in the world to be looking at this kind of thing that would be crazy. And some people are starting to 3D print foods. And 3D printed foods have actually been a thing for a little bit of time now. You might see them as like icings on a cake or maybe a cookie that's personalized with your name or something along those lines. But in reality, we are looking at how once again, the structure affects the freshness. And the reason that this hasn't really been done before is because we didn't have the tools in order to control structure with this level of accuracy and precision before.
So we could create foods with different structures. That's not a big revelation over here. If you think about the difference between Wonder Bread has a really tight knit pore structure versus an artisan bread, you might buy a bakery has a really large pore structure. You can make them with more or less the same ingredients and have a different structure. So we're certainly not reinventing the wheel, but the technology that we're using now, which is not super available for food science allows us to make much, much, much smaller changes so that we can do a more systematic assessment.
So we can say things like, "What if we spaced the lipids?" Or I'm sorry, "What if we spaced the oil a little bit further from each other? Does that affect the rate of the oxidation? Or what if we put it into triangles? Does that make it stale a little bit slower?" We really weren't able to do those things before, but now with a 3D printer, we can. And of course the 3D printing technology is becoming more popular. And we purchased our 3D printer about a year ago, and there are only a very small handful of papers published in food science that use 3D printing at all. And certainly, I would say next to no papers that discuss trying to modulate the shelf life using specific structures.

E'layna (18:48):
So you mentioned that in the past, there weren't really tools available to really precisely control the structure of food. So I'm wondering how was food deterioration really studied? What were the traditional methods of really looking at food deterioration?

Louis Colaruotolo (19:06):
Yeah, that's a really good question. Shelf life is such a hot topic. You have undoubtedly gone into the pantry, picked up a product and looked at the expiration date at some point in your life. And you have that snap decision where you say, "It's out of date. But do I really want to go to the grocery store and replace it?" Right. And I'm going to leave you up to that decision. That is your decision to make, however, a lot of these dates that are determined for the shelf life of foods follow a somewhat similar procedure. Should be noted that not every food manufacturer does it this way. But what they do is they take one specific quality parameter or something about the product that they want to monitor, how it changes through time. Let's take, for example, our hypothetical cookie, we are going to look at the texture of the cookie, or as we would like to say in food science, we're going to look at something like the mechanical properties of it.
Let's say the hardness is what we really care about. We've done our consumer focus studies and we've discovered that people hate our product once it becomes too hard. So once we know the level in which we have determined to be the unacceptable level, we take this one attribute, hardness, and we monitor the hardness through storage day after day, week after week, month after month. It depends on the product itself. And we determine when that specific attribute, the hardness, becomes unacceptable. We do that a whole bunch of times, so many times until we get to a point in which we say, "All right, it appears as if after X days, let's say one month, the product becomes too hard and it will not be acceptable anymore." And they use that date to determine the shelf life in most situations. Now the complication of the issue becomes a little more extreme because you'll see things like use by best buy, fresh buy, enjoy by dates.
And a lot of times these are loosely regulated terms and they certainly are not cohesive terms used throughout the world. So you could go over to England or you could go over to South Africa, or you could go to Taiwan and everyone's going to be using different terminology. So it is difficult to really take these things for face value. However, should be noted that for the most part, the manufacturers, they know what they're doing. And you can, for the most part trust the freshness dates on them, although there was a product or two out there that I personally don't feel go too too bad, and maybe something like dried pasta, like that's not going bad any time too soon, you don't need to be tossing out dried pasta.

E'layna (22:34):
Right. I like that context that you gave. I actually learned a lot. And I know for me, as a buyer, as a new kind of adult shopping and I'm not a fan of grocery shopping, honestly, but I know once I have something that I want to cook and I'm looking in the cupboard or looking in my refrigerator, one of the first things I actually look at is the best buy date. For some reason, it's just kind of something I'm trained to do. And I don't know exactly why. And I was kind of programmed to know that I still have a couple more days, at least beyond the best buy date. So, I could be wrong. I may have just been eating expired food, but I don't know. So I'm actually wondering, what new knowledge does your research seek to provide I don't know if you're at kind of the results stage yet in your research, but what new knowledge does your research provide or seek to provide in the future? How do you see this really impacting the industry?

Louis Colaruotolo (23:46):
Yeah, I'm certainly still in the thicket of the research, not necessarily in the results part, but I have a few ideas. If you think about the future of food, which is just such a large concept on its own, we want to make food last as long as possible. And there's so many reasons why. And one of the big issues is food equity because food goes bad. That's not the first time I've said it, but food goes bad. And that makes it quite difficult to give food and secure a supply of food that is safe and nutritious to people who live very far away from food manufacturing. So if we think about people that are living in the Northwest territories or someone who's living up at St John's, it's to be tough to get them fresh food. So if you ever look at pictures of the grocery store is up there, if you're somewhere in the Yukon, you might see a grocery store and it'll say $23 for a bottle of orange juice.
You're like what? Orange juice shouldn't cost $23. But the reality of it is that that by the time it's manufactured, yeah, it's got a decent shelf life, but by the time it gets all the way up to the Yukon territories, eh, its shelf life is weaning and they have less days to sell it. And it's expensive to transport. And a lot of this is all tied in with the fact that the food's life is not going to last forever. So there's a lot of costs associated with shelf life. And if we could increase the shelf life of products, just by a little bit, we could potentially do a better job of distributing food. We could do a better job of ensuring that people have a nutritious food supply, and we could even look a little bit closer to home. And we can look at different places that have less access to fresh foods.
So if you take a family that lives in Toronto, who does most of their grocery shopping at a convenience store, because a grocery store isn't anywhere near round, it's possible that we could create foods that have high nutritional content, that have a longer shelf life that makes it more economically reasonable to be delivered to convenience stores so that we could help tribute food equity a little bit better. And I'm not saying that shelf life is going to be the Keystone to all of this, it's not the pinch hold, but it is certainly one of the many working pieces in establishing a more food equitable environment.

E'layna (26:46):
Right. Honestly, a lot of what you said, kind of stood out to me because when we think about shelf life, we don't normally think about all these other moving parts, like the food distribution and access part or the nutrition or the economic aspect of it all. So, yeah, I think research like this is really important moving forward, especially as global population is expected to increase and we're expected to feed more people and food systems are expected to innovate and change. So this is honestly really great research that you're working on. So I'm just wondering now, what would you say as someone who you're in the thick of the research part of it all right now, so what would you say is the most challenging aspect of this research and gathering all that you need to know to move forward?

Louis Colaruotolo (27:37):
Yeah, among many reasons I could read the list. I'll pick a few. I'll cherry pick a few of my favorite difficulties.

E'layna (27:47):
All righty.

Louis Colaruotolo (27:48):
As I said before, food is complicated. Oh my God, food is so complicated. And I mentioned earlier that I'm just doing corn protein, water, and alcohol, and you wouldn't believe how many times this corn protein has sent me into a mental health spiral.

E'layna (28:07):
Oh no.

Louis Colaruotolo (28:09):
Sometimes the corn protein is just not feeling it. And one of the big things that got me really, really bad earlier this summer was the humidity. Oh my goodness. You would not believe how the humidity affects my samples. I'm looking at something like the rigidity of the proteins. So the second that I open their storage container, all of that swampy Ontario humidity goes right into the container. And my corn proteins, like give me, give me, give me, give me, give me, and then they all become waterlogged or they become less rigid, less soft. And it's like, I've been storing these for a month now. I just want to know how rigid they became, but all of my measurements have been ruined because they just sucked up the humidity from the environment so quickly.
So I've gone through multiple instances of, this is not my first time battling this. I have armed myself with so many tools at this point. I asked my advisor and she bought me a dehumidifier. So I was running a dehumidifier back in June in order to suck the water out of the air. And of course a dehumidifier makes it hot. So here I am just sweating in lab. I'm reading the temperature and it's like 29 degrees in the lab and I'm sweating, but at least it's like dry sweat. It was sort of like a sauna treatment. I would put a sign on the door that said like, "Dry sauna, please do not enter." Because of course you open that hall door and all that humidity gets sucked right in. So there are many, many, many challenges when doing a scientific experiment. And I would have to say that humidity and the finickiness of food is certainly at the top of that list.

E'layna (30:01):
Wow. That like... Honestly, I didn't even think about all these factors that you food scientists have to consider when running these types of experiments. And I'm just wondering about your lab set up. So you work with a 3D printer and then you also have a storage place where you kind of keep whatever structures you've built. How does that work?

Louis Colaruotolo (30:26):
Yeah. Yeah. The material creation, the 3D printing and the other three methods that I use, other two methods that I use, they are really maybe one third of what I do. They're the most relatable one third, but I do a lot of other work past that. So it's not really just looking at the sample and saying, "Ah, yeah, it's much harder. It's much more tough. It's much more rigid." We do a lot of pretty interesting, innovative ways of determining these things. However, it's a little bit less relatable, so it doesn't always make it into the conversation. Yeah. So we have a 3D printer that is in one room.
And then I store the samples really in these large glass desiccators, which is a fancy word for a glass jar, with a glass lid. And we put a little bit of a salt solution in the bottom and that salt solution modulates, here's that word again, we love that modulating word. This salt solution creates... Creates still not the right word. This salt solution modulates the relative humidity of the environment itself. So the salt absorbs a little bit of that water. And if using the right salt, I can make a relative humidity of 33%, 50%, 75%, 25%. So what I'm doing is I'm creating a storage environment that mimics a certain environment. Right now I'm using 33 or 35% relative humidity in order to store my samples.
So yeah, I store them into these glass jars and then I measure how they behave over time. We use a lot of different tools. We do a lot of photo physical tools, which is some fancy words for using light. So we do a lot of research with light. People are potentially familiar with the term spectroscopy or the use of light in order to study something. I do a lot of fluorescence, which you definitely know from overhead lights, maybe in an office, fluorescence lights are a type of light. And I use that type of light or really I use that... Yeah. Back up. It's really not a type of light. Gosh, if my advisor heard that she would be like storming down from her office right now. No. So yeah, we use a lot of different photo physical tools. And one phenomena we look at is fluorescence. So we have our tools, we have our storage area and we have our material fabrication area.

E'layna (33:08):
So Louis, as you get a bit deeper into your topic, have there been any new questions that are arising that other researchers may try to tackle in the future?

Louis Colaruotolo (33:19):
Oh, absolutely. We just bought this 3D printer and my advisor has so many ideas. Oh my God, she has so many ideas and I'm not going to lie, I was the one that I'm not going to say I requested the 3D printer. I'm not going to say that I was the one that made it so that we had a 3D printer. But I like to think that I made a convincing argument or two, of course it was ultimately where she wanted to take the direction of the lab, but she has so many ideas and projects lined up that I'm getting a little jealous. I'm like "Maria, this was my 3D printer. And now you're doing all these cool things with all these other people pay more attention to me."

E'layna (34:07):
I get that.

Louis Colaruotolo (34:08):
So, right though? So, it's fun because there are so many different things you could do with this because no one has been doing experiments at this level with this accuracy and precision. So we are printing things on a really, really, really small scale. We're going to look at things like how heat transfers through products. We're going to look at things like how organizing things in a different way affects different properties. We could do so many things, honestly, open possibilities. There's almost no natural conclusion to what we can do with this type of technology.

E'layna (34:53):
Right. That's... Yeah. I totally get that. Especially like this seems like something you're super passionate and interested in. So hearing about all these new and exciting ventures must really get you excited. So I'm wondering, what advice would you give to an aspiring researcher or just someone who's interested in learning more about this topic and studying food deterioration, or is there any advice that you have for those folks?

Louis Colaruotolo (35:21):
Yeah. Advice comes in many different forms. If I'm giving scientific advice, I'm going to say, "Do all your experiments in the winter where the humidity is constant." From a larger standpoint, I would say that there is going to be a significant amount of struggle and failure before you know that you are doing a good job. And then from an even more emotional standpoint, I'm going to say that it is really tough and doing science is not easy by all means. And it will put you through a lot emotionally, physically, mentally. But if it is something that you love, it is something that is worth the struggle.

E'layna (36:13):
Yeah. That's great advice, Louis. And I'm just wondering now is there any way that our listeners can become involved? Are there any at home experiments that we could participate in?

Louis Colaruotolo (36:24):
Yeah, it's interesting because as a human I'm assuming majority of the audience is human, as a human you experience every single day for the most part. So when you're eating food, you are doing miniature experiments every single time. So if you are a fan of baking, if you are a fan of cooking, you could always do your own experiments. Think about structuring food differently. There are ways that you could do this in your cooking.
Consider one example. If you are making your own bread, what if you needed that bread for five minutes less, five minutes more, or the exact amount that the recipe says? You are going to create three unique structures. Now, you can determine which one has the longest shelf life by determining which one becomes stale first. And just like that you are on your way to studying food deterioration. Certainly not at the scale that we're doing it in the lab. And certainly not with the precision or the accuracy or the scientific backing or evidence, but it's a beginning to think that, "Hey, same ingredients, the bread is made from the same exact ingredients, but the structure is slightly different." And I guarantee you right now, you're are going to see a difference.

Tahlia (38:02):
I'm going to chime in here. This has been such a fascinating conversation, but I definitely like that concept. And I've actually had the opportunity to do that with pizza dough and different ingredients in pizza dough and finding out which sort of methods create different types of dough and structures, especially in how you bake it. So I think that's great advice for some home cooks to take into their experience.

Louis Colaruotolo (38:40):
Yeah. Yeah. It's quite translatable. I think that that's one of the fun things about food science.

E'layna (38:45):
Yes. This whole conversation was very fun to me. As someone who has a food and agricultural economics background, anything in the sciences is very interesting to me because I'm on the outside looking in. But yeah, this has been a very fascinating conversation and I really want to thank you for coming on the show, but before we go, I just want to ask, is there anything or anyone you'd want to give a shout out to as we wrap up this episode?

Louis Colaruotolo (39:12):
Yeah, I do a little bit of podcasting myself at the university. I have a show on the school radio show or my bad, I have a show on the school radio, which is a CFRU. You can tune in locally, or you can always visit CFRU.ca for live recordings and archives. But I have a show that is called, We Know Some Stuff, which is all about talking to graduate students as candidly as possible about what they're studying, because we are certainly not experts and we don't know everything, but we do know some stuff and we have a lot of stuff to say. So if you're looking for a much, much, much more casual approach to what's going on in science today, check out my show. We know some stuff you can once again, find those archives at cfru.ca or at my website, which is www.my full name, Louis Colaruotolo.com.

E'layna (40:22):
Very cool. Thanks for letting us know about that, Louis. I'll definitely try to tune in. And yeah, I'd just like to reiterate, this has been an amazing conversation and I'm very happy to have learned about the role that you're playing in studying food degradation and all these structures and all these scientific things. So it has been great. And thank you everyone for tuning in today.
The Why and How Podcast is published by the Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph. It is produced by Jordan Tetra and Tahlia Dyer. Recording and editing Jacob Isaac and Kyle Richie. The host is me, E'layna Baker. If you liked what you heard, be sure to leave us a review and subscribe. Thanks for listening.