Kerry Houlahan: 00:05 Dairy cows that are more feed-efficient will emit 25 to 30% less methane, which is one of the worst greenhouse gases. We're currently working on first incorporating feed efficiency into the breeding goal because it has a lot more economic implications for producers. But tied to that is directly going to be a decrease in the greenhouse gas emissions from dairy cows. Josh Moran: 00:27 You're listening to the Why & How Podcast, produced by the Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph, where we look to answer the big questions in agriculture, food, and the environment through casual conversation rooted in research. Hello everyone. I'm Josh Moran, and today we are joined by a friend of the show, Jordan Terpstra. Jordan Terpstra: 00:48 Hey, Josh. How's it going today? Josh Moran: 00:50 Good. Thanks for being on again. Jordan Terpstra: 00:51 Hey, it's always a pleasure. So who are we talking with today? What are we talking about? Josh Moran: 00:55 Well, we are finally... I'm sure they've heard it in episodes of the past there me talk quite a bit about how much I love dairy. So now we're finally getting the opportunity to sit and talk about it. We're joined today by some PhD students, kerry Houlahan and Adrian Butty. So thanks for being on guys. We really appreciate it. Adrien Butty: 01:14 Thank you for the opportunity to speak about our research. Kerry Houlahan: 01:16 Thank you for having us. Josh Moran: 01:17 Awesome. So maybe before we get going, maybe we'll ask for just a quick Coles Notes version of what you guys are doing and how your work is tied. Adrien Butty: 01:26 So we're both working on the same project, the EDGP project. EDGP stands for efficient dairy genome project. That's a passion project that tries to find out ways to breed our dairy cattle for better feed efficiency and lower methane emissions. Josh Moran: 01:43 Very interesting. Maybe before we get into the specifics, I'd ask you guys who your advisor is. Kerry Houlahan: 01:50 We're both supervised by Dr. Christine Baes. And then I'm co-supervised by Dr. Flavio Schenkel. And Adrien was co-supervised by Dr. Filippo Miglior. Josh Moran: 01:58 Maybe just for some of our listeners that aren't familiar with cattle, what differentiates a dairy cow from say a beef cow? Adrien Butty: 02:05 Well, I think It's said in the name. A dairy cow is here to produce milk whereas a beef cow is expected to produce meat. Josh Moran: 02:12 And you're specifically dealing with Holsteins, right? Kerry Houlahan: 02:14 Yes. Josh Moran: 02:14 Which is the classic black and white- Kerry Houlahan: 02:16 Yes. Josh Moran: 02:17 One that you see in all the farm photos, I suppose, so. Very good, very good. Now you said feed efficiency. So what do you mean by feed efficiency? Kerry Houlahan: 02:25 Feed efficiency is pretty much the cow's ability to take the food that she consumes and translate it into the milk that, obviously, we want to drink. And the rate at which she can do that is basically the feed efficiency. Jordan Terpstra: 02:39 And what sort of issue is this research addressing? Kerry Houlahan: 02:44 There's a big push right now for farms to become more sustainable and more efficient. And so by looking at the variation between the amount of food a cow eats and then the milk that she can produce based on this variation of food consumed, we can try to look for cows that consume maybe the same amount of food as her partner in a pen. But produces three times as much milk. And that will help increase efficiency on a dairy farm. But it also promotes sustainability. You don't need as much land for resources to grow food. You don't need as many, maybe, animals in the barn to produce the same amount of milk. So that's where it really drives home the importance. Jordan Terpstra: 03:20 And you're looking for these individual characteristics. What are you specifically looking for to identify these traits in cows? Kerry Houlahan: 03:29 We measure a lot of things in cows. So currently we measure feed intake on our research farm. We measure milk production as in total volume as well as fat and protein production that they're making. We are looking at body weight of the cows. We're looking at their body condition score to look at cows that are maybe... Are they feed-efficient because they're just able to use their body reserves or are they actually using the feed that they're consuming? Jordan Terpstra: 03:56 Well, what is it that a lot of these farms are breeding for right now? And then what sort of difference are you striving towards? Kerry Houlahan: 04:03 In general, most dairy producers are following what we call the lifetime performance index, which is an index or a breeding goal that's been set by a company who Lactanet, which is a collaboration of genetics and dairy herd improvement companies. They are breeding for production, obviously, it's how producers are paid. They are also breeding for durability, which includes conformation traits and cattle longevity. And then health and fertility are really big ones. And then eventually we would like to put feed efficiency in there. Josh Moran: 04:32 And this feed efficiency, this has an implication on methane, right? Which is the greenhouse gas that everyone's so concerned about. Kerry Houlahan: 04:39 Yes. So dairy cows that are more feed-efficient will emit 25 to 30% less methane, which is one of the most or the worst greenhouse gases, I should say. We're currently working on first incorporating feed efficiency into the breeding goal because it has a lot more economic implications for producers. But tied to that is directly going to be a decrease in the greenhouse gas emissions from dairy cows. Josh Moran: 05:03 And specifically you're working with genetics, correct? Kerry Houlahan: 05:06 Yes. Both of us. Josh Moran: 05:06 And so you're looking for these individual genes and the traits that are associated with how efficiently a cow can turn feed over, right? Adrien Butty: 05:15 Yes. That's exactly what to do. So we try to look not only at the whole picture. So we'll look at the cow, is this animal doing better than the other? But we are also looking into the genome of the animal and trying to find out what are the genes that have an effect on the trait we're looking at so that we can more precisely target and select our animal to breed for improvement of this rate. Josh Moran: 05:39 I know that in some ways we're the product of our parents, right? It's the idea behind this. And in one way, I'm not the exact same as what my sister may be or my brother may be. So the question would be how heritable is this lower emission? Kerry Houlahan: 05:58 Feed efficiency is heritable about between 20 and 30% depending... There's still a lot of research going on for that, which basically makes it on par with milk production. So milk production is one of the most heritable traits that we have currently. So it is very heritable. And the way that the heritability will work is it's passed from parent to offspring. But due to the variation in the genes that can get passed and the way the gene transmission works, one sibling might not be identical to their full sibling, right? Identical twins are very, obviously, identical. But just siblings are going to be very different that come from the same parent. Adrien Butty: 06:36 Well basically you could say that the one person could get all the gene and the other one could get all the good gene by chance. There is a lot of chance presence in there. Jordan Terpstra: 06:47 And I know when people tell me, I look like my sister, I sometimes get offended. Josh Moran: 06:52 And so when it comes to looking at these genomes and working with genetics, how are you actually doing that? Adrien Butty: 06:59 Voila. So well, basically we collect hair sample on every animal that we want to have an idea about. And then we read specific data points on the genome. So we genotype the animal. That's what we call for this. We have a chip. It's more or less inexpensive right now. On the research barn, we definitely do every animals. And farmers all around the world actually are using this technology to get the information about the gene and what version of the gene each animal is carrying. And then we estimate what is the effect of all of those data points that we get on each animal. And at the end of the day, it's just a summation. So we sum with negative or positive effect, of course. And the sum of all that give us a number that allows us to rank the animal from the best to the less good. And then to select which one we want to keep for further generation of progenies. Jordan Terpstra: 07:58 Very cool. So then when it comes to your research and your work, it must vary a lot day to day to what you're actually doing. Do you spend a lot of time in the barn and then you go into the lab or is it depend on the project that you're actually working on? Adrien Butty: 08:10 Well, if you asked me before I started studying, why I did agricultural sciences, I would have say, "I hope it's to be inside and outside." But well I ended up actually sitting in front of a computer for eight hour day. We are data analysis. We have partly on this specific project, we've been every now and then out on the farm to do some specific data collection more on the methane side. But the main work that we do is data analysis. We get those genetic points I was speaking about before from the producer, from the industry directly to us. And then well we played number crunching for a little bit of a time. And at some point we get something or not. Kerry Houlahan: 08:50 I think it depends on what you want to do. So as Adrien mentioned, he spent about eight hours a day in front of a computer. I've been a lot more involved in the hands on data collection, kind of, from day one I was on the research farm taking these hair samples to send away. Originally we were manually weighing cows every week. Anywhere from 80 to 100 animals, where we'd just simply... They would come through the barn and walk over a scale, basically. It was not invasive in any means. But through some great technology improvements, we've been able to automate that process, which is great. And so now both of us just mainly are involved in the methane testing and that on-farm data collection. Jordan Terpstra: 09:31 I find it very interesting. And I think a lot of people assume that when you're working with genetics or when you're dealing with animals, that it's the super invasive and scary thing. Maybe to just address some of those misconceptions. You're not genetically modifying animals, you're not doing anything wild. Would you maybe want to speak to some of the misconceptions you may come across? Adrien Butty: 09:51 Yes, definitely. I think we are going on what has been done since when started breeding, the 20th centery, say it that way. Kerry Houlahan: 10:01 Yeah. The 1800s. Adrien Butty: 10:01 So there is nothing really new that we knew there. There is more precision by reading the genome, but actually we only select the parents and we mate them. And then we get the progeny. And so sometimes we are lucky. Sometimes we are less lucky, but we don't do any changes. So there is no invasive change in the genome. We don't go switch anything in the animal. The technology's here and it happens, but not in that kind of a case, of a project. It's artificial selection. It's of course not that natural. I mean, the cow doesn't decide which bull she's going to be mated with, but that's where all the stuff is just not natural. Kerry Houlahan: 10:39 Yeah. As Adrien mentioned, we don't go in and change any of the genes or genetically modify anything. It's a 50/50 chance what comes out on the other side. You're kind of try to pick the best possible parents and fingers crossed, basically. Hopefully you get what you want. Josh Moran: 11:00 And with cows, I think a lot of people assume that... Just to relate back to methane emissions, that cows are just farting all the time. And that's what's causing this huge amount of methane emissions. But maybe could you guys speak to the actual amount of greenhouse gas that's associated with the dairy industry or even the livestock industry in general here in Canada? Kerry Houlahan: 11:21 Absolutely. The first thing I'll say is that most of the methane that comes from cows or any ruminant, which is cows, goats, and sheep, actually comes from what they call eruptions or burps. So 98% of it comes out their mouth, which is the pretty big misconception, I think, among most people. But in general, so the agricultural industry in Canada as a whole is responsible for 8% of our total greenhouse gas emissions. So obviously we can do better there. Josh Moran: 11:49 So when you say, "Our." That's Canada? Kerry Houlahan: 11:52 Absolutely, yeah. So 8% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions. We can do better, of course. And then within that 8%, 3.5% are related to just animals. And the greenhouse gases that animals make in there, it's roughly 80% cattle. So as a total emissions, cows are just over 2.5%, in general, of the total Canadian greenhouse gas emissions. Dairy is a little bit more responsible than beef. The dairy cows are fed a very high energy diet and that translates into higher methane emissions. So we're trying to do our part. But I would say as a whole, the cows are probably not solely responsible for climate change. Josh Moran: 12:34 Yeah. It's not something that's negligible and you're constantly striving for improvement. But it's definitely not the sole perpetrator or the main perpetrator for that. Kerry Houlahan: 12:42 No, I think everybody can do their part. And both of us have worked very hard in the last three plus years to do our part in helping the dairy industry become less contributing to the greenhouse gases. Josh Moran: 12:56 And so basically in a lot of ways you're trying to breed cows or select for cows that are going to emit less methane in the long run. Now I'm curious if you think that a consumer would be willing to buy a product that has less emissions. Would you think that that would be something? Kerry Houlahan: 13:14 I go back and forth on this. So as Adrien mentioned, this is a very large project. It has partners all across the world and across Canada. So one of our partners in Western Canada has actually been looking at consumer and producer willingness to pay. I only know a very small amount of what she's done. She's done a lot of amazing work. I think that there's a proportion of the population that has both the means and the interest in paying for something that has that. But at the end of the day, food's very expensive. And as a grad student, I could not afford to pay more for it. But there also might not be a reason to pay more for it. If the whole industry moves towards more efficient, more sustainable animals, the prices might not change in your grocery store. Josh Moran: 14:02 You just hope that it's something that may eventually become an industry customer. Kerry Houlahan: 14:06 Exactly. So instead of a specialty product, so to speak, it would just be standard. That would be our ultimate goal, I think. Josh Moran: 14:13 Well and I remember during our pre-meeting a little while back, when we spoke you said that it's kind of like a spectrum of 1 to 100. And we put so many resources into certain aspects like milk production and conformation, so how the cow looks. Now it's about finding little areas where you can take away and start to incorporate this aspect, yes? Kerry Houlahan: 14:36 Yeah. So when we choose our parents for the next generation, we use something called a selection index. And that's simply just a list of things that we want to see in a cow. And they get weighted by usually an economic factor in how important they are. The more important they are, the more weight they get in the index, the more likely the trade is to improve. So currently milk production is the highest weighted in our index, of course. It's again, how producers make money. And then our conformation traits or what they call our durability component. The how long the animal's going to be in the herd. That kind of stuff is also very highly weighted. And then health and fertility kind of comes into the end. So if we only have 100% to select on, we've currently maximized that 100% there's no other room. We're going to have to figure out where we can give on some of these traits, take away some of that percentage to add in feed efficiency. And that was a large part of what my master's degree was looking at. Jordan Terpstra: 15:36 I think that's something that's so interesting when it comes to this. And something that I think a lot of people need to be aware of is that to completely switch over your herd to these cows that are more feed-efficient, it's not a tomorrow kind of thing. It's not a snap and done. It's going to be something that's going to have to happen over time. It's like any solution. It's reducing methane emission with cars too. You're not going to see all of a sudden those hundreds of thousands of cars on the road switch over to electric cars the next day. So in the same way that it happens for industries like the auto industry, it's very similar in terms of cows. And I think that that's something that is important to mind. Adrien Butty: 16:11 Well I would actually almost expect the auto industry to have a quicker turn around than the dairy cattle industry. Jordan Terpstra: 16:17 Oh, really? Adrien Butty: 16:18 I mean, the moment you start doing the research on these kind of new traits until the time you have it implemented also, and put in the selection index. And then you have the farmers starting to use it already just the moment they start to make the decision to mate this cow with this bull that should leads to a better progeny for our trade. It's already first nine month before you have a calf at all. And if this calf is a female, you will still have to wait two years to get the cow to start lactating. And then after this one year of lactation, you will be able to say is there an improvement or not. Josh Moran: 16:55 The idea of it being a gamble, right? When you build an electric car, you know it's electric. When you breed a cow, like you mentioned, 30% heritability. That's a 70% chance of that not being carried over, which is something you can strive for. And it's a gene that's going to become more dominant the more it's bred for. But it's something that's going to take time, correct? Adrien Butty: 17:14 I think we're speaking about 10, 15, 20 year- Kerry Houlahan: 17:16 I would say 20 years. So in animal breeding we have this thing called a generation interval. And that's basically the length of time it takes for a cow or an animal to replace themselves in a herd. And the average for the dairy industry is five years to replace themselves. Bulls are replaced every year. They're having offspring every year or they're getting replaced. But in a dairy herd, you might have a cow for three, five, six lactations if you're lucky, if you're really lucky. That takes a long time for her to completely replace herself with the best genetics. So on a farm it could take up to 20 years for you to see your whole entire herd turnover to becoming feed-efficient. So it is definitely a long-term goal. Jordan Terpstra: 18:02 And so how long has this type of research, so feed efficiency specifically, been going on then? Adrien Butty: 18:07 The project itself started in 2015. So it's four year now. But feed efficiency has been discussed over the world. And so for the dairy part, since probably I would say seven, eight years, people have been discussing there... It's mostly international consultants we need. Those traits are difficult to measure. So that's a point that even though- Kerry Houlahan: 18:31 Very expensive. Adrien Butty: 18:31 It sounds easy, but actually it's expensive. Someone has to physically go to the cow and measure the methane she's producing. Or you have to have a scale set up in the barn 24/7, 365 days a year to see how much feed she's intaking. So this is all happening on an international level so that we can get data from as many animals as possible and have a better idea of what's happening. Jordan Terpstra: 19:01 So it must be an exciting time for you two to be part of this research when it's so early on, especially when it's such a long-term game. Adrien Butty: 19:09 So it's definitely a hot topic. Feed efficiency is getting there, actually. In most of the countries, some countries have already starting implementing it and using it. So they started the 20 year delay, so to speak. I think Canada is well on the way. Kerry Houlahan: 19:25 Yeah. Our goal would be... We'll have hopefully feed efficiency in a selection program within the next 12 months, which is very exciting. Josh Moran: 19:32 Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. No, I like to hear that. Adrien Butty: 19:35 So yeah, the feed efficiency topic is getting to the part of implementation application parts, but the methane emission has still work to do- Kerry Houlahan: 19:43 Lot's of work. Adrien Butty: 19:45 And this is always very interesting to go. When we go around, we have the chance to go to some conferences [inaudible 00:00:19:50]. There is a lot of people working on that. And being able to discuss with, having on the same train, that's a very great experience, yes. Josh Moran: 19:58 And you said you're seeing some of this application in some spots. And I'm sure it's not something that's been going on for ages at this point, but I'm curious as to if you're actually seeing any results when it comes to that? Kerry Houlahan: 20:11 So the first country to implement feed efficiency was Australia, with a specific trait that they have created for their own country. For people who don't know a lot about Australia dairy farming, it's very different from Canada. In Canada, we have all of our cows in barns. So the cows have babies all throughout the year. There's no specific season for it here. In Australia, they have something called a grazing system. So their cows are actually living outside all the time on pasture and they have something called seasonal capping. And that means that all of their babies are born in their springtime, which would be our fall, for the switch of the equator. Kerry Houlahan: 20:49 So it's a very different kind of system. So they've created a trait that works well for them. And they have seen improvements. Their best cows, I believe it was... So the statistical part of it is one standard deviation above the mean. They're eating 60 kilograms less of feed and producing the same amount of milk that they were before. So that's pretty substantial when you look at what feed actually costs. Here I can't say... We're hoping for something similar very much so, but we haven't actually implemented it in Canada yet. Josh Moran: 21:19 Even to say that, your... Even if the environment wasn't your main concern, in terms of the amount of money that you can say by reducing that much feed. And to think about that in a long-term thing and in terms of a long-term game, it's extremely substantial. Kerry Houlahan: 21:34 It's millions and millions of dollars. So feed costs, it's over 60% of a producer cost for their farm. Josh Moran: 21:41 So methane emissions really will vary from diet to diet. Kerry Houlahan: 21:44 Absolutely. Josh Moran: 21:44 Yes. And then that's probably just, again, this high-energy ration will typically be what's associated with... Kerry Houlahan: 21:52 Yeah. High energy and even the dry cow diet, the more fiber in the diet. So dry cows or cows that are not milking. Josh Moran: 21:58 Dry fiber being the straw that we see or- Kerry Houlahan: 22:00 Exactly. So fiber being hay, straw, that kind of stuff that they're eating. The more fiber in the diet, the more methane that's being produced. So it does vary very much diet to diet. And that's the environmental part of it. So like I said, it was about 30% heritable in and around that range. That means that 70% of it is management. It's what they're being fed. It's how they're being housed. It's all of those things that come along with it. So the genetics is definitely a very important role, but there's also a lot of management in there as well. Josh Moran: 22:34 Has this research raised a lot of questions for you. I know often sometimes research ends up going out and setting off more questions than it does answer things, but I'm curious if there's anything like that that really stood out for you guys. Kerry Houlahan: 22:46 Yes. For me, I like to look at the economic side of it. So I have a lot of questions around how economically viable is it mostly from the data collection standpoint. This is something that's unbelievably expensive to measure. As a kind of idea, in an average year we will have close to 800,000 cows with milk records coming into our databases. Since this project started four years ago, we have 3000 cows measured, so. And those 3000 cows have come from seven countries. And the 800,000 cows are coming from just Canada. Josh Moran: 23:24 That's incredible. And I remembered, again, talking with you guys in the pre-meeting, you telling me that from 2016 to the most recent year, the amount of increase in terms of GDP that the dairy industry actually is contributing to Canada is substantially increasing. Kerry Houlahan: 23:41 It's growing. So in 2016, it was $16.8 billion that it was contributing to the GDP. In 2018, it was $19.8 billion. So people think that milk consumption is going down. While fluid milk consumption is, milk products are actually rising. So we see more cheeses, ice creams, any kind of milk product really, yogurts. That's all increasing in consumption. Josh Moran: 24:03 And for context as well, I think the stat that I've gotten is that that's about just just under 18% of the total agri-food systems GDP, in terms of what it contributes to Canada. So it's definitely a huge market, right? And to play into that and to not only continue to produce at a higher, more efficient level, but to also reel back and sustain the environment, is amazing just to see the strides that are being taken, so. Kerry Houlahan: 24:33 Absolutely. No, it's very important, I think, in every industry. And the dairy industry is no exception. We want to see the industry improve every year if we can. And the more sustainable, the more environmentally friendly we can be, the longer we're going to be able to do this. If it's not efficient, if it's not sustainable, if we're producing unbelievable amounts of methane or any other greenhouse gas, we're not going to be around much longer. So we have to make our part in fixing that problem. Adrien Butty: 25:01 The Canadian dairy industry, I think, is on the top list worldwide in the dairy industries. And if we wanted to keep these, kind of, good positions, there is no way. You have to go ahead. If you stop, you are going to lose it. Jordan Terpstra: 25:18 And with all this being taken into account, do you think that there's one thing you wish that everyone knew about your research? Adrien Butty: 25:26 Well I think that's the... I will come back to the fact that the industry is working, is doing, is going ahead, is trying to advance before it's too late. Or to be better, to do better, to be more sustainable, also to be more efficient. Not only on the producer side that wants to reduce the feed cost, but definitely also for the society to put on the market product that are sustainably produced. I think this is very important to say, we are working on research for this industry to go ahead on this level in sustainability, which is a very hot topic right now. Josh Moran: 26:11 Yeah. And even not just to speak to the progress that we've made in terms of emissions, but also the progress we've made in terms of cow comfort and the environment that cows get to live in now. As we move more towards these freestyles where cows are free to roam or they're up and they're moving and it's mimicking a natural environment. And the animals are treated better now than they have ever been. So it's fantastic to see that side of things as well. And I think that's something that's underrepresented in the dairy industry, so. Kerry Houlahan: 26:40 The dairy industry... We work in pretty much just genetic, but the industry itself, there's a program called proAction. It is people going on farms every year, sometimes every month, just depends on schedules. And they're looking at things that are happening on dairy farms in Canada and giving producers ways to make them better. And the producers are following it, which is fantastic. So not only are we improving genetics, we're improving welfare, we're improving management, we're improving all aspects of the industry. And the industry I would say is a leader in that. It's the producers that are asking for us to make it better for not just them, but the cows, the consumers, for absolutely everybody. Adrien Butty: 27:18 Or the better example of this is that our project is heavily industry-funded. Jordan Terpstra: 27:25 And I think it's pretty cool when... To go off what you had said Adrian about, I think when a lot of people think of trying to improve the environment and climate change and all these things, they think of studying environmental sciences. And I think it's pretty neat that you two are in animal science and also working with data and genetics. And you're really showing the variety of what your work is and that it takes a lot of industries and a lot of people in different research areas to improve the environment. Kerry Houlahan: 27:55 Yeah, I would say we're all very connected. Of course, it's like we do the genetics portion of this. But we are one of probably hundreds of thousands of groups and in varying disciplines that are looking at climate change and sustainability and everything else. Even within the dairy industry itself, you have plant geneticists, plant producers, everything. They're looking at how to farm better and more sustainably for their crops. We're looking at the genetics for the cows. There's nutritionists looking at things. There's a lot of aspects that go into this. Jordan Terpstra: 28:28 Very cool. And so on more of a personal note, what got you two interested in this area of research, originally? Adrien Butty: 28:35 Oh, that's the fault of my family. I don't have a direct farming background, but the grandparents back home were farmers. And I got the virus as a love to the animals, actually from the beginning. And definitely the main question I had when I was on the farm was always asking my grandfather, "Who is the mom of this calf?" So from there, I ended up here working in genetics. Yeah, I went to undergrad in agricultural sciences and then somehow I ended up in Canada doing a PhD in this kind of field. Jordan Terpstra: 29:08 Very cool. Kerry Houlahan: 29:09 I had a little bit less of a direct route to get here. Unlike Adrien, I'm from Canada. And I grew up in a rural area in Ontario, but I did not come from a farming background. We had horses my whole life, but that was kind of my agriculture. I actually came to Guelph to study molecular biology, of all things. I got about a year and a half in, realized that was not for me. And my friends were in the Ag Program. And I was like, "Well this looks cool." So I did that and I fell into a dairy cattle job through horses. And it was history after that. Dairy cows genetics and I've stayed ever since. Josh Moran: 29:47 You said rural Ontario, right? Kerry Houlahan: 29:49 Yes. Josh Moran: 29:49 Specifically Eastern Ontario. Kerry Houlahan: 29:51 Yeah, I'm from rural Eastern Ontario. Josh Moran: 29:52 The best Ontario. Jordan Terpstra: 29:55 Well, and Adrien, I know we had mentioned that you two are both PhD students, but technically you're not. I mean, I guess you haven't graduated yet. But you had mentioned before that you actually just defended. Adrien Butty: 30:05 Yes. Actually it's exactly a week ago before this recording that I defended my thesis successfully, luckily. And, yeah. Jordan Terpstra: 30:14 Well congratulations. Adrien Butty: 30:15 Thank you. Josh Moran: 30:15 And since this is something that's so fresh and maybe for a listener who might be interested in pursuing something like this down the line, what was that process like? What was it like defending? Adrien Butty: 30:24 Defending? Josh Moran: 30:25 Yeah. Adrien Butty: 30:25 Defending is not that much difficult. Writing before- Kerry Houlahan: 30:29 No. It's the easiest part. Adrien Butty: 30:31 Defending is basically a discussion that you have with four experts in your field. And you have to convince them that what you think and what you did is correct and the best, or sometimes also limited. But that was definitely a discussion I had with my examination committee. Jordan Terpstra: 30:52 Very cool. Josh Moran: 30:52 So now that you are done with this, what are some of the steps for you going forward? I know as of this recording, you were telling me we were super lucky to get Adrien on because he was a ready to hop on a plane and head back home, so. Adrien Butty: 31:06 So yeah, it's an end of an era for me, kind of. An adventure for sure. Three and a half years in Canada were great, but home is home and home is Switzerland. So I'm flying back there. I will be doing exactly the same on the industry side, no more on the research. So I will be a geneticist for the Swiss Genetic Evaluation Company. So I will still be working with dairy cattle. I mean, I don't know if I want to change [inaudible 00:00:31:34]. And yeah, that's basically the future. Jordan Terpstra: 31:37 That's exciting and good luck to you. And hopefully you come back and visit Guelph once in a while. Adrien Butty: 31:44 I definitely hope to come back and we have- Kerry Houlahan: 31:48 He has to come back. Adrien Butty: 31:48 We have a new... So after this project on which we've been working, there is a new project coming up that is kind of the follow up project. The company I will be working with is the Swiss partner on this project and the next project. So maybe I'll have a chance to come back as the Swiss industry partner this time. Josh Moran: 32:05 Right on. And how about you Kerry? Kerry Houlahan: 32:07 So I'm a year into my PhD. I still have at least two more years to go. So right now I'm just focusing on my actual research. And then, I really enjoy a lot of the knowledge transfer events. So taking what I do, taking it to different industry events. So hopefully I'll get to do more of that in the future. And way down the line, I hope to work in industry in helping actually implement some of this stuff. But we'll see what that happens. I got a little time left. Josh Moran: 32:37 Yeah, it's just this striving towards improvement in terms of the environment, in terms of welfare, and all this. It's a collaborative effort. And the work that you guys are doing is this something great, right? And it's what's going to make industry more sustainable. It's what's going to give dairy a better face and keep a lot of these great farmers that I know in business and healthy. So thank you for the work that you guys do. It's greatly appreciated. Jordan Terpstra: 33:04 You can tell that Josh really likes dairy. And he's got a strong love for it. Maybe a little passionate, yeah. Josh Moran: 33:10 That's great. And I've got a just a few more questions, so maybe a wrap up with. Kerry Houlahan: 33:13 Yeah, sure. Josh Moran: 33:14 So the first one I'll leave you with is what's the most rewarding part of your research? What aspect do you guys enjoy the most? Kerry Houlahan: 33:20 For me, well when a result works is always pretty great. But I really, really enjoy, as I've mentioned, going to these industry events. And the look on the producers' face when I can give them anything. It could be the smallest tidbit and they're like, "Wow, this is so cool." And they understand what we do, in a very general context of course, but they get it. And that is the coolest thing for me is seeing their face light up when they understand the research. That's the best part. Josh Moran: 33:51 Communication is a big thing. It's awesome. Adrien Butty: 33:53 I would also say communication. I had the chance to go quite a few places, less to producers, actually. I also have been working much more into the genes, which is more abstract maybe. But as I had from my defense, having discussion with older experts in the field... Or older, yeah. With experts in the field, is always a really great part of the research. Josh Moran: 34:16 Yeah, the hands on and seeing people and seeing their excitement to be involved and to involve this new technology is great. Adrien Butty: 34:22 Wanting to work together to go ahead to exchange information or even sometimes data and making the step a tad bigger. Josh Moran: 34:33 That's great. The second question would be what would you say to someone who's interested in maybe your realm of research or this type of work? Kerry Houlahan: 34:40 Get involved. Josh Moran: 34:41 Get involved. Kerry Houlahan: 34:42 Which I realize is much easier said than done. But there are tons of opportunities. For example, undergrad students here at Guelph, our project literally takes everybody that we can get to help us. It is, as we mentioned, a huge project for data collection. So getting involved in that just allows you to see what happens in a research project. Whether you might not want to do dairy cows down the road, you might want to do something else, but it gives you the exposure to it. You can meet the grad students, you can talk to them one on one. A lot of the professors take undergrad research students and do small projects with them and it gives you a taste of kind of what this is like. And then for me in agriculture, it was talking to the producers. I don't know how many I have talked to, how many of them have been kind enough to let me ask probably dumb questions, for them. But they've been great in that experience. And I would just get involved, talk to people. Kerry Houlahan: 35:37 I would even say, because I'm not from a foreign background, just educate yourself. Not everything you read online is true. Please go ask somebody who actually knows what their background is. Check your sources, stay educated, stay up to date because agriculture is a very rapidly changing industry in all aspects. And everybody is doing a great job, especially on social media lately. You see a lot more farmers coming out and letting you basically see their farms. And that's pretty cool. So I would say, look for them. Even if you're not interested in working in agriculture, just in general, everybody has to eat. So if you want to know where your food comes from, just ask somebody who makes it. Josh Moran: 36:20 And your best advocates are the ones that are pretty well dependent on it. So, yeah. Love it. Jordan Terpstra: 36:24 And also listen to our podcast because... Kerry Houlahan: 36:26 Yeah, exactly. There you go. Josh Moran: 36:27 You learn lots of things. Jordan Terpstra: 36:29 I had to plug it in there. Josh Moran: 36:30 Yeah, you should plug the podcast while we're on the podcast. I like that. Jordan Terpstra: 36:36 Yeah. Josh Moran: 36:36 With everything being said, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule. And thank you for agreeing to do this right before you take off. Too buy one of the last faces you have to see before heading home has to be mine. But try to remember this one. Adrien Butty: 36:49 Yup. Thank you very much for the opportunity for us to speak about our research. It's always great to be able to show and to present to a wider audience what we've been doing in our corner for quite a while. Kerry Houlahan: 37:03 Thank you very much for having us. Josh Moran: 37:04 Thanks guys. Jordan Terpstra: 37:04 Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much. Josh Moran: 37:06 Until next time. The why & how podcast is published by the Ontario Agricultural College of the University of Guelph. And it's produced by Stephanie Craig and Jordan Terpstra. Recording and editing done by Jakub Hyzyk and Kyle Ritchie. The host is me, Josh Moran. Funding for this episode was provided by the WS Young Memorial Communications Grant for the OAC Alumni Foundation.